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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: sparkleberry on September 03, 2011, 05:41:30 PM

Title: safale wb-06
Post by: sparkleberry on September 03, 2011, 05:41:30 PM
i used this once in my first batch of beer(a wheat porter).

any recommendations or thoughts for a comparable strain from white labs or wyeast? i have been using mostly wyeast 1056 for just about everything but was thinking about trying this recipe again.  i am unfamiliar with wheat yeasts. 

thanks.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 03, 2011, 05:57:20 PM
Hefeweizen strains will be nothing like neutral US ale yeast, such as 1056. Expect clove phenols and banana esters and, with WB-06, some tartness. You simply can;t make a hefeweizen without a good german wheat beer strain (forget Widmer "Hefeweizen", while it is not a terrible beer it is an American Wheat Beer, not a German Hefeweizen.)

I personally think that WB-06 is too tart. I prefer to stick with liquid strain such as WLP300 and WLP380.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tschmidlin on September 04, 2011, 07:25:36 AM
Hefeweizen strains will be nothing like neutral US ale yeast, such as 1056. Expect clove phenols and banana esters and, with WB-06, some tartness. You simply can;t make a hefeweizen without a good german wheat beer strain (forget Widmer "Hefeweizen", while it is not a terrible beer it is an American Wheat Beer, not a German Hefeweizen.)

I personally think that WB-06 is too tart. I prefer to stick with liquid strain such as WLP300 and WLP380.
fixed
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 04, 2011, 03:57:24 PM
Snob.  :D Can't really blame you though, I love authentic hefeweizen. Troeg's Dreamweaver Hefeweizen is a great, authentic example. Love that stuff. But Widmer is at least devoid of major flaws and has more flavor than BMC, so give 'em some credit. You could do worse after a lawn mowing session. ;)
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tschmidlin on September 05, 2011, 07:01:11 PM
:) I'd honestly rather drink water.  I've never been pleased with any American Hefeweizen I've tried, weather Widmer, Pyramid, Redhook, or any of the others I've tried.  I've not had some of the very hoppy ones I know are out there though, so maybe they'd be ok.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 05, 2011, 07:57:27 PM
:) I'd honestly rather drink water.

I'm gonna call your BS here. I guarantee you if you were in the right circumstance you would even drink a Coors Light over water. A few years ago I had spent several days and nights back packing along the pinhoti trail. It was a very dry and hot trip and when we got out of the mountains we stopped off at a convenience store for a six pack of beer. Being in the middle of BFE the best beer they had, literally, was MGD. Oh, I turned my nose up at first. But I can honestly say that it was one of the best beers I ever drank. Ever. Period.

I haven't had Widmer in several years but I don;t recall there being any obvious flaws. I can;t say that for every craft beer I have had out there. For instance, bringing up a previous thread, I'd probably take a Widmer "hefeweizen" over just about anything I have ever had from Weyerbacher.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: denny on September 05, 2011, 08:14:45 PM
I'm gonna call your BS here. I guarantee you if you were in the right circumstance you would even drink a Coors Light over water. A few years ago I had spent several days and nights back packing along the pinhoti trail. It was a very dry and hot trip and when we got out of the mountains we stopped off at a convenience store for a six pack of beer. Being in the middle of BFE the best beer they had, literally, was MGD. Oh, I turned my nose up at first. But I can honestly say that it was one of the best beers I ever drank. Ever. Period.

I haven't had Widmer in several years but I don;t recall there being any obvious flaws. I can;t say that for every craft beer I have had out there. For instance, bringing up a previous thread, I'd probably take a Widmer "hefeweizen" over just about anything I have ever had from Weyerbacher.

I can guarantee you that you're wrong in my case.  Flavor (or lack thereof aside), I find water more refreshing than almost any NAIL.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tschmidlin on September 05, 2011, 08:42:30 PM
:) I'd honestly rather drink water.

I'm gonna call your BS here.
You just don't understand the dislike I have for American hefes.  I prefer BMC to them.  When it's 100F+ on the river, Coors Banquet is very refreshing, but I wouldn't touch any of the Am. hefes I've tried.  In Seattle weather, I'll pass on the macro lagers and Am. hefes and drink water.  It's happened before and will again.  We were at a water park two days ago - they had Bud and Bud Light.  I had water.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 05, 2011, 10:20:31 PM
OK, Tom. I'll let you have your dislike for Am. Wheat beers. Not my first choice either. But Denny, you have been in beer paradise too long. You are spoiled rotten. I'm just saying: if you were lost in the dessert for a week and you were rescued by a refrigerated Bud Light truck. I guarantee you that your snobbery be damned, you are going to drink that bud Light and you are gonna f-ing love it and want a second. I have been in situations, mostly back packing, for days at a time and I have been surprised at how delicious any beer can be when you haven't had one in a while. I can remember coming across this young group who had hiked in a case of Miller Lite and it wasn't even cold and I drank one and asked for a second. True story.

And It's not just because I'm a drunk, though that may be part of it. Because I normally carry bourbon out in the mountains. But I love beer. In fact, there's a little neon "High Life" sign in my brain that comes on every afternoon at about 3:37.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tomsawyer on September 06, 2011, 01:40:46 PM
I used WB-06 for quite a few American wheats since the wife enjoys that style.  I thought the yeast did a decent job but I don't recall getting much clove/banana from it.  In the meantime, wifey has branched into German hefes and I've been using WLP300 and WLP380, she likes the 300 best.

I never really find myself reaching for wheat beers although my latest witbier is pretty tasty.  I appreciate the style and its fun to tweak ferm temps and pitching rates to get the perfect balance of banana and clove.  I did have a Boulevard wheat the other day due to the lack of decent beers at the place, and it was passable.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 06, 2011, 02:25:48 PM
Well, WB-06 is a german weissbier strain so it should give you the typical ester and phenol profile. Surprised you didn't get that, Tom.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: jaybeerman on September 06, 2011, 06:22:34 PM
You just don't understand the dislike I have for American hefes.  I prefer BMC to them.  When it's 100F+ on the river, Coors Banquet is very refreshing, but I wouldn't touch any of the Am. hefes I've tried.  In Seattle weather, I'll pass on the macro lagers and Am. hefes and drink water.  It's happened before and will again.  We were at a water park two days ago - they had Bud and Bud Light.  I had water.

I pretty much feel the same though maybe not quite as strongly.  So via a full beer profile explain what would constitute an exceptable american hefe or if you can't do that then your personal ideal german hefe (I'm talking the flavors, aromas, mouthfeel, overall character, etc.)

The reason I ask - I've made what I would call an american autumn wheat, its still has the refreshing wheat character but with a little more body or oomph.  I'm curious what other american wheat haters would think of it.

My vote would be for 380 otherwise.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tomsawyer on September 06, 2011, 08:06:51 PM
Well, WB-06 is a german weissbier strain so it should give you the typical ester and phenol profile. Surprised you didn't get that, Tom.

Maybe it did, its been a long time since I brewed with it and like I said I didn't drink much of it.  Just didn't recall it being nearly as estery as WLP300 or even WLP380.

The reason I ask - I've made what I would call an american autumn wheat, its still has the refreshing wheat character but with a little more body or oomph.  I'm curious what other american wheat haters would think of it.
We'd hate it of course.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 06, 2011, 08:12:40 PM
You just don't understand the dislike I have for American hefes.  I prefer BMC to them.  When it's 100F+ on the river, Coors Banquet is very refreshing, but I wouldn't touch any of the Am. hefes I've tried.  In Seattle weather, I'll pass on the macro lagers and Am. hefes and drink water.  It's happened before and will again.  We were at a water park two days ago - they had Bud and Bud Light.  I had water.

I pretty much feel the same though maybe not quite as strongly.  So via a full beer profile explain what would constitute an exceptable american hefe or if you can't do that then your personal ideal german hefe (I'm talking the flavors, aromas, mouthfeel, overall character, etc.)

The reason I ask - I've made what I would call an american autumn wheat, its still has the refreshing wheat character but with a little more body or oomph.  I'm curious what other american wheat haters would think of it.

My vote would be for 380 otherwise.

Wheat malt itself doesn't have a strong character, which is why I find it odd that people would hate US Wheat beers so vehemently. To me they are more like blondes or kolsches. Just not enough character there for me to hate. Perhaps they are not super exciting but if it's 95 degrees pool side I could find one quite refreshing. Generally I'd prefer an authentic hefeweizen. But I wouldn't necessarily turn my nose up to a widmer "hefeweizen" depending on the circumstances.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tschmidlin on September 06, 2011, 08:29:16 PM
You just don't understand the dislike I have for American hefes.  I prefer BMC to them.  When it's 100F+ on the river, Coors Banquet is very refreshing, but I wouldn't touch any of the Am. hefes I've tried.  In Seattle weather, I'll pass on the macro lagers and Am. hefes and drink water.  It's happened before and will again.  We were at a water park two days ago - they had Bud and Bud Light.  I had water.

I pretty much feel the same though maybe not quite as strongly.  So via a full beer profile explain what would constitute an exceptable american hefe or if you can't do that then your personal ideal german hefe (I'm talking the flavors, aromas, mouthfeel, overall character, etc.)

The reason I ask - I've made what I would call an american autumn wheat, its still has the refreshing wheat character but with a little more body or oomph.  I'm curious what other american wheat haters would think of it.

My vote would be for 380 otherwise.
It's hard for me to say, since I avoid them so much.  Maybe it's time to have one again so I can remember what I don't like about them.  I much prefer the german hefes.  Besides the obvious yeast differences, they tend to have a fuller body and more flavor.  I don't know if I would like your wheat beer, but I know how we can find out. ;) ;D

And Keith, you're right that there isn't all that much flavor.  But I also don't really care for pilsners, blondes, and even kolsch is pretty far down my list of favorite styles.  For lower alcohol beers I'd much rather have a bitter, mild, or 60/-.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: majorvices on September 06, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
Yeah, Denny and Tom. That's what I am saying, sounds like surfeit to me.  ;)
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: jaybeerman on September 07, 2011, 12:06:32 AM
I don't know if I would like your wheat beer, but I know how we can find out. ;) ;D
So via a full beer profile explain what would constitute an exceptable american hefe or if you can't do that then detail your personal ideal german hefe (I'm talking the flavors, aroma, overall character, etc.)

First of all, I'd have to make another batch.  Second, you'd have to respond to the above (I'm just looking for a few details - describe in detail what you like about german weizen and hate about american wheats).  For the record, I felt very ripped off when I bought a 6er of widmer wheat.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: nateo on September 07, 2011, 12:39:25 AM
Not a lot of homebrewers talk about WB-06. I've actually found a lot of info about it over on the probrewer boards. I think there are a couple of issues people run into on the homebrew scale. WB-06 is pretty sensitive to overpitching, and you'll lose a lot of the weizen character if you do. Most of the probrewers pitch about 70% of what they normally would for the volume and gravity. You also shouldn't oxygenate too much when you use it.

I've tried rehydrating, not aerating the wort, and pitching about 3/4 of the slurry into a 5 gallon batch, and I've gotten a lot of the same flavors I get with the Weihenstephan weizen yeasts. WB-06 isn't as good, but it makes a good beer if handled properly.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tschmidlin on September 07, 2011, 05:59:40 AM
I don't know if I would like your wheat beer, but I know how we can find out. ;) ;D
So via a full beer profile explain what would constitute an exceptable american hefe or if you can't do that then detail your personal ideal german hefe (I'm talking the flavors, aroma, overall character, etc.)

First of all, I'd have to make another batch.  Second, you'd have to respond to the above (I'm just looking for a few details - describe in detail what you like about german weizen and hate about american wheats).  For the record, I felt very ripped off when I bought a 6er of widmer wheat.
I enjoy the yeast character of a weizen, both in the flavor and aroma.  The weizens tend to be fuller bodied than the American wheats I've had, and I like that.  They are also generally a bit sweeter and smoother.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: jaybeerman on September 07, 2011, 07:16:07 PM
I enjoy the yeast character of a weizen, both in the flavor and aroma.  The weizens tend to be fuller bodied than the American wheats I've had, and I like that.  They are also generally a bit sweeter and smoother.

I agree that it's hard to beat the spectrum of flavors in a good weizen.  If an american wheat had depth of flavor (though lacking the clove/banana) and managed to be, fuller bodied (i.e. sweeter and smoother) you'd like it?
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tschmidlin on September 07, 2011, 08:07:02 PM
I enjoy the yeast character of a weizen, both in the flavor and aroma.  The weizens tend to be fuller bodied than the American wheats I've had, and I like that.  They are also generally a bit sweeter and smoother.

I agree that it's hard to beat the spectrum of flavors in a good weizen.  If an american wheat had depth of flavor (though lacking the clove/banana) and managed to be, fuller bodied (i.e. sweeter and smoother) you'd like it?
Maybe.  I'd have to try it to know for sure. :)
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: jaybeerman on September 07, 2011, 08:58:46 PM
Maybe.  I'd have to try it to know for sure. :)

 :)
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: yugamrap on September 10, 2011, 07:01:32 PM
I've used WB-06 and also find it a bit tart for my liking.  I prefer WLP300 or WLP380.  WY3068, WY3056 and WY3638 are good, too.  They all have slightly different characteristics.  As well, you can play with fermentation temperature to coax different characteristics our of the same yeast.
Title: Re: safale wb-06
Post by: tomsawyer on September 11, 2011, 12:40:06 PM
I was getting tartness with WLP300 and 380, but I figured out it was to due to my water.  Built a low-sulfate, soft water with a little chloride and the hefe's are much better.