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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: roguejim on September 08, 2011, 06:19:59 PM

Title: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: roguejim on September 08, 2011, 06:19:59 PM
Does the BJCP allow judges to also enter the comp in which they are judging?  It seems to be the case here in southern Oregon.  Maybe the BJCP doesn't have control over local comps, even though the  comp is sanctioned by the BJCP?  Just seems strange at best to allow judges to compete in the same comp that there are judging in.  What do you think?
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: bonjour on September 08, 2011, 06:22:50 PM
This is not a problem as long as the judge doesn't judge a category he/she has entered.
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: tschmidlin on September 08, 2011, 07:36:45 PM
Yes, what Fred said.  This happens all of the time, and with good reason - judges are entrants and entrants are judges, if you bar them from doing both then you either lose judges or entries.
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: roguejim on September 08, 2011, 08:27:39 PM
Yeah, I understand your point, Fred.  I'd already considered that.  But, let me play the devil's advocate for a moment...

An "unscrupulous" judge has entered a German pils which he feels is spot on.  In the course of judging another category, he comes across another beer that he feels is spot on.  Maybe this judge doesn't want to go head to head against this other beer in the BOS round, so he doesn't quite give it the score it deserves.  I know this is a worst case scenario, and hopefully rarely, if ever, happens.

What Tom said is not really a "good reason", although he has stated a fact. 
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: James Lorden on September 08, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
what if a judges beer moves to the BOS round.. is that judge barred from judging the BOS?  Seems like that would be hard for a competition organizer to pick up on.
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: bonjour on September 08, 2011, 08:41:24 PM
Not hard to do and often judges are not asked because they have a beer in there.  It is not uncommon for a judge to remove him/herself from a category/BOS because he knows a beer he is familiar with (not his) is in there.  All effort is made to remove bias.

If so, he has another judge to convince that the beer is not deserving.  If there is any doubt about a beer being BOS (mini-bos) quality I send it on.  I'm told to send 2, sometimes I send none (really bad flight) and others I'll send 4 or 5.  If they don't have it, they leave a BOS real quick.

Can the system be cheated on?  Any system can be cheated on,  I have never seen it happen.  I see judges falling out of the way to avoid that.
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: tschmidlin on September 08, 2011, 09:24:39 PM
What Tom said is not really a "good reason", although he has stated a fact. 
If you've ever run a competition and been short of judges, you would understand why I feel like it's a good reason.

I have never heard of anyone cheating the way you describe, although I doubt anyone would brag about down grading another's beer so theirs does well.
Title: Re: BJCP Comps...Judges allowed to enter?
Post by: tom on September 08, 2011, 11:34:36 PM
what if a judges beer moves to the BOS round.. is that judge barred from judging the BOS?  Seems like that would be hard for a competition organizer to pick up on.
There are several good homebrew competition programs that make that easy to prevent.