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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: micsager on September 12, 2011, 04:42:29 PM

Title: Kangen Water
Post by: micsager on September 12, 2011, 04:42:29 PM
OK, so I was at a Wooden Boat Festival over the weekend, and there was a vendor selling thise Kangen water systems.  $4,000, so there's no way I'll buy one, but he said he would give me 20 gallons to try and brew With.  From the little research I've done so far, Kangen water is high in PH, so I think I'll pass on even trying. 

Anyone ever brewed with this water?
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: euge on September 12, 2011, 07:27:50 PM
Sounds overpriced and like a bunch of BS to me. But there are plenty of people with money to throw away on systems like this. Then they can brag to their friends of "how healthy" they are.

Pass. You'd be better off buying a distiller.
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: tomsawyer on September 12, 2011, 07:38:17 PM
You need some of the positively charged ions in your mash, specifically calcium.  I see no reason to remove the calcium and then have to add it back.  Plus it seems like you'd be concentrating your bicarbonate, chloride and sulfate.

I concur that an RO or distillation system would give you a better more consistent starting point for brewing water.
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 12, 2011, 07:55:06 PM
You need some of the positively charged ions in your mash, specifically calcium.  I see no reason to remove the calcium and then have to add it back.  Plus it seems like you'd be concentrating your bicarbonate, chloride and sulfate.

I concur that an RO or distillation system would give you a better more consistent starting point for brewing water.

If it were just the charge of the ion, you could use salt to get the sodium, Na+.  Sodium doesn't lower the mash pH, though.

From "How to Brew" 3rd ed., page 161.

"... 3.5 equivalents of Calcium reacts with the malt phytin to release 1 equivalent of hydrogen ions, which neutralize 1 eq. of water alkalinity". 

Mg++ has the same charge as Ca++, but it is half as effective at reducing the pH per equivalent. 
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: mabrungard on September 12, 2011, 09:00:27 PM
I've recently seen ads for Alkaline Water Systems in my local paper.   I'm assuming its some sort of scam for folks looking for a health benefit.  Alkalinity is the last thing most brewing demands. 
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: Slowbrew on September 12, 2011, 09:19:12 PM
A quick google search for "kangen water lies" returns 44,000 hits.  I don't think you can the guy too seriously.

Paul
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on September 12, 2011, 10:07:19 PM
Was it at least in the nice box?
Did it say something like this: "Design in the USA"?
If yes then it is all worth it.
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: denny on September 13, 2011, 02:05:11 AM
Was it at least in the nice box?
Did it say something like this: "Design in the USA"?
If yes then it is all worth it.

(http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/lol2.gif)
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: punatic on September 13, 2011, 05:34:31 AM
I guess the real question is... does it come with a kiss?

For me, I need to be kissed before I get screwed.   :o

Negatively charged hydrogen ions?  A proton with two electrons?

The hydrogen anion is a negative hydrogen ion, H−. It is an important constituent of the atmosphere of stars, such as the Sun, where it is the dominant absorber of photons with energies in the range 0.75-4.0 eV, ranging from the infrared into the visible spectrum (Rau 1999). It also occurs in the Earth's ionosphere (Rau 1999).

Its existence was first proven theoretically by Hans Bethe in 1929 (Bethe 1929). H− is unusual because it has no bound excited states, as was finally proven in 1977 (Hill 1977). It has been studied experimentally using particle accelerators (Bryant 1977).

Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: jimrod on September 18, 2011, 03:21:06 PM
I think that is an interesting idea. The machine splits the water molecules electronically to create a higher absorption rate in your body. The science seems sound but the whole MLM thing and 4K ?    WOW !

Kangen water systems can deliver very low pH for antiseptic applications also. Hospitals in Japan use the Kangen systems for pH water down to 4.8. or lower. The machine is made to be adjusted for very high pH or very low pH depending on its use. So maybe it would be good for the mash water.

It's primary use is for drinking water which they claim needs to be high Ph.

Now I think the water changes again during the boil so there might not be an adverse affect on the 50-100 ppm of calcium needed for healthy yeast growth. Ask Kai , he could tell you.

 

Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: narvin on September 18, 2011, 03:40:19 PM
4k?  Does it at least come with one of those Sharper Image air ionizers too?
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: punatic on September 18, 2011, 07:55:48 PM
I think that is an interesting idea. The machine splits the water molecules electronically to create a higher absorption rate in your body. The science seems sound but the whole MLM thing and 4K ?    WOW !


Warp drive engines and time travel seem sound too.
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on September 18, 2011, 08:51:09 PM
I think that is an interesting idea. The machine splits the water molecules electronically to create a higher absorption rate in your body. The science seems sound but the whole MLM thing and 4K ?    WOW !


Warp drive engines and time travel seem sound too.
Sounds funny.
Can you prove it?
Hard to quantify it.

With time travel you at least could see the Delorian (and then not to see it).
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: nateo on September 18, 2011, 08:58:56 PM
I think that is an interesting idea. The machine splits the water molecules electronically to create a higher absorption rate in your body. The science seems sound but the whole MLM thing and 4K ?    WOW !

I was just drinking some water the other day, after a night of imbibing spirituous beverages, and thought "Man, I wish this water had a higher absorption rate."
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: Kit B on September 20, 2011, 08:47:48 PM
I was just drinking some water the other day, after a night of imbibing spirituous beverages, and thought "Man, I wish this water had a higher absorption rate."

Me, too...'Cept I was thinking, "Dang, I wish this water tasted like beer".
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: Tristan on September 22, 2011, 04:30:52 PM
Got to say I roll with a cheap "Watts" RO system I bought from Amazon for under $200.  One of the best investments I've ever made.  Hard to believe anyone would pay this kind of money for any water treatment system, unless you are on the space shuttle and need to recycle bodily fluids.
Title: Re: Kangen Water
Post by: Slowbrew on September 22, 2011, 07:20:27 PM
I think that is an interesting idea. The machine splits the water molecules electronically to create a higher absorption rate in your body. The science seems sound but the whole MLM thing and 4K ?    WOW !


Warp drive engines and time travel seem sound too.
Sounds funny.
Can you prove it?
Hard to quantify it.

With time travel you at least could see the Delorian (and then not to see it).

Time travel is easy!  We all do it all the time.  Oh wait you meant travel BACK in time?  Sorry, we only go forward in this here town.

Paul