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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 28, 2011, 02:41:04 pm

Title: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 28, 2011, 02:41:04 pm
I made my first yeast starter last night using 1pt of water, 1 cup of DME, and wyeast 1388 belgian strong ale. 3 1/2 hrs before pitching I activated my smack pack, yet it barely inflated by pitching time. My research tells me this happens often and is ok. So I shook my mini-wort well and pitched yeast then covered with foil. I have no stir plate so this morning I went to shake it again which caused a few inches of foam to appear, I assume from co2 coming out of solution. I saw no krausen ring around my growler but there is a yeast cake at the bottom of my starter. Could it have fermented out already? If so wouldn't there be a krausen ring? Or is it behaving normally? I'm just curious about the yeast cake at the bottom and want to make sure it'll be ready for my 1.080 beer this saturday.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Slowbrew on September 28, 2011, 02:45:54 pm
A small starter can finish that quickly.  Many of my starters do not have a krausen ring.  I usually see some foam in the jar but not always.

If you don't need it right away just let it sit, it will be fine until you use it.

Paul
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: hoser on September 28, 2011, 02:52:14 pm
It is not uncommon for a starter to finish quickly as the volume of yeast is quite large in relation to the volume and gravity of the starter.  I will say that if you are making an ale with an OG of 1.080 and doing a simple starter with a volume of 1 pint without oxygenation, agitation, or stirplate that you willl be underpitching if you are brewing 5 gallons of beer.  It may be worthwhile to chill, decant, and step up your starter one more time.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 28, 2011, 03:02:44 pm
I will say that if you are making an ale with an OG of 1.080 and doing a simple starter with a volume of 1 pint without oxygenation, agitation, or stirplate that you willl be underpitching if you are brewing 5 gallons of beer.  It may be worthwhile to chill, decant, and step up your starter one more time.

Do you think another liter would suffice? Mr Malty says I need 4.5 liters, but I don't have a vessel big enough for that, aside from a 6 gallon carboy.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: denny on September 28, 2011, 03:13:16 pm
Another liter would be better than nothing, but it's a long way from optimal.  In addition, your original starter seems like it was awfully strong.  You want to shoot for a 1.030-1.040 starter gravity.  Try to pick up a larger container for your starters.  I use a gal. glass jug that originally held apple juice.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: hoser on September 28, 2011, 03:22:09 pm
I will say that if you are making an ale with an OG of 1.080 and doing a simple starter with a volume of 1 pint without oxygenation, agitation, or stirplate that you willl be underpitching if you are brewing 5 gallons of beer.  It may be worthwhile to chill, decant, and step up your starter one more time.

Do you think another liter would suffice? Mr Malty says I need 4.5 liters, but I don't have a vessel big enough for that, aside from a 6 gallon carboy.
As Denny said, it would be better than nothing and your starter needs to be of a lower gravity.  Hard to say how big of a starter you need without knowing the age of your yeast. Also, you are likely counting your yeast viability from your initial starter so that is likely why the yeast calc tells you to make a 4.5L starter.  You are going to need a larger vessel for sure because if you do step it up it will likely overflow a pint jar due the yeast activity.  Do you have a growler?  Otherwise you can buy a quart mason jar or something similar...
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 28, 2011, 03:25:24 pm
Another liter would be better than nothing, but it's a long way from optimal.  In addition, your original starter seems like it was awfully strong.  You want to shoot for a 1.030-1.040 starter gravity.  Try to pick up a larger container for your starters.  I use a gal. glass jug that originally held apple juice.

I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 28, 2011, 03:29:21 pm
I will say that if you are making an ale with an OG of 1.080 and doing a simple starter with a volume of 1 pint without oxygenation, agitation, or stirplate that you willl be underpitching if you are brewing 5 gallons of beer.  It may be worthwhile to chill, decant, and step up your starter one more time.

Do you think another liter would suffice? Mr Malty says I need 4.5 liters, but I don't have a vessel big enough for that, aside from a 6 gallon carboy.
As Denny said, it would be better than nothing and your starter needs to be of a lower gravity.  Hard to say how big of a starter you need without knowing the age of your yeast. Also, you are likely counting your yeast viability from your initial starter so that is likely why the yeast calc tells you to make a 4.5L starter.  You are going to need a larger vessel for sure because if you do step it up it will likely overflow a pint jar due the yeast activity.  Do you have a growler?  Otherwise you can buy a quart mason jar or something similar...

I have a one liter starter in a growler, and the date on the yeast is from Aug 8th of this year. And hopefully my dad has one of those wine jugs left to serve for next time. Lol I bought one of those 1000mL flasks a while back but never had occasion to use it. Now I wish I'd saved my money. Don't know how much good 1000mL would do for a big beer.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: beersk on September 28, 2011, 04:15:17 pm
Another liter would be better than nothing, but it's a long way from optimal.  In addition, your original starter seems like it was awfully strong.  You want to shoot for a 1.030-1.040 starter gravity.  Try to pick up a larger container for your starters.  I use a gal. glass jug that originally held apple juice.

I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.
That's what Palmer recommends.  I make 1 liter starters, typically, and use a cup of DME.  Always works out pretty good for me. 
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 28, 2011, 07:17:10 pm
 Thats exactly where I got it from lol, Palmer's How to Brew.

I added another quart of wort to my growler a bit ago. 1 qt to about 3/4 cup to see how that works out. Forgot to take a gravity reading on it, but I'm not too worried about it. Hope its enough yeast to get the job done.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: denny on September 29, 2011, 10:01:07 am
I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.

Don't measure the extract, weigh it.  I use .75 oz./cup of water.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: beersk on September 29, 2011, 01:42:16 pm
I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.

Don't measure the extract, weigh it.  I use .75 oz./cup of water.
I think I may try this my next starter.  I usually try to measure out a cup, bounce it a little to settle the DME, and add more.  Level cups, as they say in baking.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: hoser on September 29, 2011, 01:59:30 pm
I use 1gram/10mL of water, so 1L starter is 100g of DME.  OG is generally 1.030 everytime.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on September 29, 2011, 06:43:07 pm
I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.

Don't measure the extract, weigh it.  I use .75 oz./cup of water.

Think I'll try that next time. Thanks for the tips everybody.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on October 02, 2011, 09:32:59 am
Brewed my golden strong ale yesterday, pitched my 2 quart starter. Theres good activity in the carboy this morning, already a krausen head. Hopefully it does the job.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: kgs on October 02, 2011, 02:30:24 pm
I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.

Don't measure the extract, weigh it.  I use .75 oz./cup of water.

It might be worthwhile for someone with the clout not to have edits undone change the instructions on Homebrewopedia: http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/YeastStarter

Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Hokerer on October 02, 2011, 03:18:01 pm
Don't measure the extract, weigh it.  I use .75 oz./cup of water.

It might be worthwhile for someone with the clout not to have edits undone change the instructions on Homebrewopedia: http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/YeastStarter


And while they're at it, they can fix all the other stuff that's wrong with those instructions.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: bluesman on October 02, 2011, 05:46:18 pm
I use 3oz DME to 1Liter of water. I use a digital scale to weigh out my DME. I always add a little extra water, so I end up with just over a Liter of wort after boiling, that has a finishing gravity of about 1.030.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: andyi on October 02, 2011, 06:21:05 pm

I had used 100gr DME/1000ml H2O using a 15min boil..  When i finally measured, 15min boil = 750ml @ OG 1.055.   :o       I  never accounted for the boil off vol at 15min nor the resultng higher gravity. DOH!!!!

I now boil 1250ml H20 to to get 1000ml after a 15min boil.  I also adjusted my DME to 90gr /1000ml  and now get an OG ~1.035.  YMMV

Are 15min boils necessary sanitze the starter wort?

-Cheers
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: tygo on October 02, 2011, 08:12:40 pm
Are 15min boils necessary sanitze the starter wort?

Not really.  Anything over 5 minutes or so of rolling boil will probably do the job.  I go 10 just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: denny on October 03, 2011, 09:03:37 am
I had read that 1pt to 1/2 cup was about 1.040, but I didn't check the gravity so I don't know. I will add another liter tonight with less than a cup and see what its gravity is. My dad used to have dozens of old whiskey bottles & gallon jugs of carlo rossi sangria. I'll have to see if he still has any of them or if his wife finally made him get rid of them.

Don't measure the extract, weigh it.  I use .75 oz./cup of water.

It might be worthwhile for someone with the clout not to have edits undone change the instructions on Homebrewopedia: http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/YeastStarter



I'll look into it.  I'm hella busy this week, so if I space it please remind me.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: a10t2 on October 03, 2011, 11:21:46 am
Thats exactly where I got it from lol, Palmer's How to Brew.

That's a well-known error in HTB. 1/2 cup DME in 1 pt of wort will have an SG of ~1.071, and 1/2 cup added to 1 pt water will have a gravity of ~1.059. Shooting for a 1.030-1.040 wort, you'd want to use about 1/2 cup per liter/quart.

It might be worthwhile for someone with the clout not to have edits undone change the instructions on Homebrewopedia: http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/YeastStarter

Has there been a problem with someone reversing edits? I just did a quick rewrite on it.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Hokerer on October 03, 2011, 12:25:55 pm
[Has there been a problem with someone reversing edits? I just did a quick rewrite on it.

Much better.  Hopefully it sticks
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: kgs on October 03, 2011, 09:09:51 pm
[Has there been a problem with someone reversing edits? I just did a quick rewrite on it.

Much better.  Hopefully it sticks

Thank you! I didn't necessarily foresee a problem on this wiki, but after having edits constantly reversed on the one Wikipedia entry I ever edited -- where I had expertise -- I have since not bothered with wikis. The rewrite is a help and makes AHA that much more authoritative.
Title: Re: yeast starter finished in 10 hrs?
Post by: Caddywhompusbeer on October 12, 2011, 10:16:46 am
Got the final numbers for the Belgian. Went from 1.079 down to 1.016 so all went well. Tasted it and I think its going to be really nice after its in secondary for a month or so. I have a gallon wine jug for starters now so shouldn't have a worry next time. Gonna need one shortly for a Pliny clone. :)