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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Al Equihua on September 29, 2011, 11:09:22 am

Title: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on September 29, 2011, 11:09:22 am
Last weekend i brew my first American IPA, came out with 5 gallon and 1.069 OG and 111 IBUS with Magnum for bitterness and Cascade and Athantum for flavoring. I want to get some really good aromas as well in secondary and i plan to use whole leafs of Cascade.. so ,how much do i have to use? half ounce? more?
i dont want a grassy aroma of course

thanks!
saludosss
Al
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: denny on September 29, 2011, 11:09:58 am
I never use less than an oz. and I've gone up to 4 oz.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: hoser on September 29, 2011, 11:14:33 am
Depends on how much aroma you are looking for. But,  I never use less than 2oz. for an IPA and like Denny have gone up to 4oz.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on September 29, 2011, 11:21:11 am
i asked becouse i read in a recipe that to much can develop some unwanted aromas
I want just a good aroma but no extremely, i usually dont rack to secondary becouse im a little afraid of infection, but this time i'll go for it,
thanks guys!
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: beer_crafter on September 29, 2011, 12:09:40 pm
Sometimes in a light bitter or something, I'll go as little as 1/4 oz.  But in an IPA, 2oz is standard for me, and 3-4 if I really want a hoppy punch to the liver.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: euge on September 29, 2011, 12:43:30 pm
A few minutes ago I dry-hopped 1 oz pellet per five gallons in the keg. Two kegs of special bitter get the treatment except I used Amarillo in one and Cascade in the other. Each ounce was divided into 4 bouquet garni bags for optimal coverage then dropped into the kegs after filling.

Hoping to get some flavor out of it as well.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on September 29, 2011, 02:00:33 pm
Euge you give me an idea for using a bouquet garni in to it, i think i have some Cascade in pellets wich is gonna save some dollars

very enjoyable using two differente dry hops in that Bitter,
thanks!
Al
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: hoser on September 29, 2011, 02:07:23 pm
I just dry-hopped an American-style ordinary bitter with 5oz. of pellet hops and the aroma is awesome!
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: hopvine on September 30, 2011, 06:59:46 am
I wouldn't go any lower than 2 oz.  I would suggest as high as 3 oz, but I have limited experience using leaf hops for dry hopping and so I can't comment on any challenges that may present (e.g. excessive absorption of beer, difficulty racking, etc.)

The biggest factor in preventing the grassy/vegetal aroma is contact time.  I never, ever dry hop for longer than 5 days.  That, in my experience, is the sweet spot for getting great flavor and aroma and preventing that grassy flavor.  But again, my experience is almost entirely with pellet hops which have a higher contact surface area, so that sweet spot may be different for leaf.  Maybe somebody else can comment on that.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on September 30, 2011, 12:29:07 pm
I wouldn't go any lower than 2 oz.  I would suggest as high as 3 oz, but I have limited experience using leaf hops for dry hopping and so I can't comment on any challenges that may present (e.g. excessive absorption of beer, difficulty racking, etc.)

The biggest factor in preventing the grassy/vegetal aroma is contact time.  I never, ever dry hop for longer than 5 days.  That, in my experience, is the sweet spot for getting great flavor and aroma and preventing that grassy flavor.  But again, my experience is almost entirely with pellet hops which have a higher contact surface area, so that sweet spot may be different for leaf.  Maybe somebody else can comment on that.

thank's Hopvine, for comments.. ok but asume that you're refering the use of pellets with muslin bags yes? im a little afraid of infecting the batch, well sanitized before let it in the beer, so maybe 3or 5 days in the secondary will be enough...
Al
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: denny on September 30, 2011, 01:38:22 pm
The biggest factor in preventing the grassy/vegetal aroma is contact time.  I never, ever dry hop for longer than 5 days.  That, in my experience, is the sweet spot for getting great flavor and aroma and preventing that grassy flavor.  But again, my experience is almost entirely with pellet hops which have a higher contact surface area, so that sweet spot may be different for leaf.  Maybe somebody else can comment on that.

Then how do you account for those of us who dry hop for months and don't get off flavors?  I dry hop with both whole and pellet hops and don't get grassy flavors.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on September 30, 2011, 01:43:19 pm
When you brew an IPA with the max amount of bitterness (100+ IBUs), you need a LOT of hop flavor/aroma just to bring it into balance.

I would go with the hopping schedule of an Imperial IPA. About 3 oz of hops for two weeks or so, then pull and replace them with another 3 oz.

What dryhops are you going to use???
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: richardt on September 30, 2011, 03:32:40 pm
Where does one find "boquet garni" bags?
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: tubercle on September 30, 2011, 03:48:38 pm
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=bouquet+garni+bags&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=2800130511&ref=pd_sl_4nwwh4caaj_e
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: richardt on September 30, 2011, 04:11:50 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Farberware-Tools-Sea-LEMON-BAGS-Set-18-/220713706352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33638fe370 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Farberware-Tools-Sea-LEMON-BAGS-Set-18-/220713706352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33638fe370)

Lemon bags seem slightly bigger sized and far cheaper.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: euge on October 01, 2011, 12:21:27 pm
The size is comparable to a ice-tea bag- 2 7/8" by 3 3/4". Sanitize in starsan before loading up with a small amount of hops. I hand-wash and reuse mine. Just work the hops out for they will have swelled, turn it inside out and rinse off the particles. Air-dry.



Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on October 03, 2011, 09:36:55 am
got it!... thanks Euge..
cheers and Saludosss
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: bluesman on October 03, 2011, 10:47:31 am
One other consideration is the AA% of the hops. The higher the AA%, the more lupulin and oils, the more aromatic quality you'll get from the hops, therefore lesser quantity can be added to acheive the same level of aroma as a lower AA% hop, however it's all subjective to your personal tastes, where some prefer grapefruit and others prefer piny or resiny...and any combination of aromatics.

I think it will be a matter of trial and error to get to your personal threshold. I like to go with 2 oz of "C" hops in a five gallon corny, as a general rule but it also depends on the beer style I trying to emulate.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on October 04, 2011, 09:25:21 am
I think it will be a matter of trial and error to get to your personal threshold.

absolutely, i think is up to me and the result will give me my own personal quantities
thanks!
Al
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: redbeerman on October 04, 2011, 10:45:19 am
The biggest factor in preventing the grassy/vegetal aroma is contact time.  I never, ever dry hop for longer than 5 days.  That, in my experience, is the sweet spot for getting great flavor and aroma and preventing that grassy flavor.  But again, my experience is almost entirely with pellet hops which have a higher contact surface area, so that sweet spot may be different for leaf.  Maybe somebody else can comment on that.

Then how do you account for those of us who dry hop for months and don't get off flavors?  I dry hop with both whole and pellet hops and don't get grassy flavors.

I have noticed that when I dryhop with higher alpha hops (Amarillo, Simcoe, CTZ, etc.),  I get no veggie, grassiness, but I have seen this issue when I leave lower alpha hops like hallertauer or even Cascade in for over 5 or 6 weeks.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on October 06, 2011, 10:34:13 am
Well, after 10 days in the primary, i took a sample last night of my first IPA (OG = 1.069) and measured a 1.008... wow, acording to beersmith it was estimated a 1.017. I mash at 154 F for an hour and batch sparge at 170F. Used two packets of US-05....mmm very strong!

im considering these options to get more aroma and flavor:

a)While still in the primary, i am considering dryhop there for another week and not rack to a secondary. Then the bottling process

b) The tea method... i read about that a few days ago and my plan is to make a weak wort 1.025 Two pints of water and DME with enough Cascade hops to let it sit for an hour at least and then pour it in the bottling bucket just before i rack it from primary and then the bottling process.

What do you think?
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: morticaixavier on October 06, 2011, 10:36:53 am
I think you should dry hop it. you will not get the same effect with the 'tea' method. it will provide more bitter than aroma or flavour.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: hoser on October 06, 2011, 10:42:43 am
Just dry hop in the primary.  Throw the hops in loose, they will eventually sink.  Rouse every other day to keep them in solution.  You are making things more complicated than they need to be by making the tea.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: denny on October 06, 2011, 10:50:19 am
b) The tea method... i read about that a few days ago and my plan is to make a weak wort 1.025 Two pints of water and DME with enough Cascade hops to let it sit for an hour at least and then pour it in the bottling bucket just before i rack it from primary and then the bottling process.

What do you think?

I just made a number of teas using water and wort to test hop flavors for a Zymurgy article I wrote.  Based on those, I would never recommend making a hop tea and adding kit to your beer.  The ones made with wort were better, but I still wouldn't want to put them in my beer.
Title: Re: how much dry hops for the secondary?
Post by: Al Equihua on October 06, 2011, 10:59:47 am
well 3-0 for the dryhops!.. i apreciate your time for comments!

thanks and saludos!

Al