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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: 1vertical on October 02, 2011, 04:45:00 AM

Title: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 02, 2011, 04:45:00 AM
Automobiles is beyond comprehension  ??? ???

They are OUT of sight and just a set of tires will put  you in the poor house...
Crazy dayz. 
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: punatic on October 02, 2011, 08:23:17 AM
Unintended consequences of "Cash For Clunkers."
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: nicneufeld on October 02, 2011, 11:47:05 AM
Used cars in particular.  Cash for clunkers did that, but new cars actually can be surprising...Nissan is advertising a sedan for a base price of 10k.  For the first time in my life I would give actually serious consideration to buying a new car.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 02, 2011, 02:19:50 PM
Used cars in particular.  Cash for clunkers did that, but new cars actually can be surprising...Nissan is advertising a sedan for a base price of 10k.  For the first time in my life I would give actually serious consideration to buying a new car.
Nic I read up about that car the "versa".  It comes with a smaller engine, standard transmission and NO airconditioning...
that is what you get for $9,990....BUT for a little more cash-ola....ahem...ahem.......

Ten thousand is not too shabby of a price for a new something...if you can stand to shift gears manually and never goto
las vegas or phoenix or houston in the summer........ ;D
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 02, 2011, 02:37:16 PM
Prices on used cars are up due to the manufacturers not having huge inventories of lease cars coming off of lease, and sending those to the used market at low prices.

The Japanese manufactures are still recovering from the earthquake and tsunami.  Their imports to the US are way down, and the plants in the US are still short on some parts sourced from Japan which slows the production rate.  People who want one of those brands are sometimes buying a low mileage used car of that brand rather than waiting for a new one.

Tires have a good amount of energy in the manufacturing process.  You might be surprised at how much oil is used in tire compounds.  We know that oil was way up in price for a while.

New cars are up due to many causes.  The dometics have also figured out that if they make a better small car that costs more, it will sell better than a dismal small car that only has the low price going for it.   

Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 02, 2011, 03:16:50 PM
Jeff I understand what you are saying. My impression is that the ENTIRE structure
of a good portion of the cars for sale is shifted to the bizarre....they cost more than
I paid for my HOUSE......!
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 02, 2011, 06:12:50 PM
When I graduated from high-school in 1985 a new Dodge Ram went for less than 5k. Did not buy a brand new car until 2006. :-\ I bought a used 9 year old Ram with 40k miles for 5k last year.

I too think it is ridiculous that the average new vehicle can cost half as much as what my house is worth. The house at least has the potential of being an investment. An automobile in 99.9% of most cases is a losing proposition.

Worse come to worse there's always a bicycle.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: maxieboy on October 02, 2011, 06:40:48 PM
When I graduated from high-school in 1985 a new Dodge Ram went for less than 5k. Did not buy a brand new car until 2006. :-\ I bought a used 9 year old Ram with 40k miles for 5k last year.

I too think it is ridiculous that the average new vehicle can cost half as much as what my house is worth. The house at least has the potential of being an investment. An automobile in 99.9% of most cases is a losing proposition.

Worse come to worse there's always a bicycle.

Have you seen the price of bicycles these days?  ;)

I've bought 1 vehicle new in my life. A 4 cyl. Chevy S-10 p/u in 1988. $4k, $6k, can't remember. Now I let someone else take the depreciation hits...
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 02, 2011, 06:51:39 PM
Haha I almost swooned when I laid down $600 for my Cannondale 600 mountain bike. Then again when I paid $1800 for a Cannondale Silk Road two years later. One could still find a nice used car for $1800 in 98.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 02, 2011, 07:01:23 PM
Hey, I remember when candy bars were a nickel!
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: tubercle on October 02, 2011, 07:22:22 PM
  Most of the used cars around here disappeared when you could get more for them at the metal recyclers than what they were worth on the market. There was a time when a car was bringing ~$1000 at the scrap yard. Folks were buying cars out of yards for $600 - $900 and driving straight to the scrap yards with them. Old tractors too.

 Most of the used car market around here is flooded with Katrina autos (pun intended).
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 02, 2011, 07:54:31 PM
I hope this movement goes VIRAL!  Maybe someone in power somewhere will take pity....

(no I have not been drinking or smoking anything mind altering!)

I would buy a new car for $5k euge I really would...and it would be made in the USA
and it would keep ppl employed here on this side of the pond...that would be reasonable.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: tubercle on October 02, 2011, 08:49:02 PM
The great irony...

 "Foreign" cars, Toyota, Honda, etc. are made in the USA by American workers, designed by American enginners, and "domestic" cars, Chevrolet, Ford, Chysler, are made in foreign countries.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 02, 2011, 09:01:40 PM
The great irony...

 "Foreign" cars, Toyota, Honda, etc. are made in the USA by American workers, designed by American enginners, and "domestic" cars, Chevrolet, Ford, Chysler, are made in foreign countries.

I can believe that.

My 06 Rabbit Mk5 was made/assembled in Germany, and the engine was made in Brazil. I like it. A lot.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 02, 2011, 09:10:51 PM
The great irony...

 "Foreign" cars, Toyota, Honda, etc. are made in the USA by American workers, designed by American enginners, and "domestic" cars, Chevrolet, Ford, Chysler, are made in foreign countries.

Foreign cars - Some are made in the US, some are not.
Domestic cars - Some are made in the US, some are not.

It is a global economy these days.

You might be surprised that the only small car made in the US is the Chevy Sonic, which went into production recently in Michigan.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: punatic on October 03, 2011, 12:09:50 AM
American car companies - union workers
Foriegn car companies - non-union workers

notice the differences
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 03, 2011, 12:54:39 AM

Foriegn car companies - non-union workers

notice the differences
If you are only thinking the US built vehicles, is this true.

Not always true for an imported vehicle.
IG Metall is the union in Germany.  They are fairly powerful.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Metall

This is the union in Japan.  Not as powerful.  http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/

The US companies that have plants in Mexico are not union as far as I know.  
The US companies that have plants in Canada are represented by the CAW.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: bo on October 05, 2011, 03:51:04 AM
I want my car built by union workers that smoke weed at lunch.  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 05, 2011, 05:23:47 AM
I want my car built by union workers that smoke weed at lunch.  ;D

And leave beer cans in the doors. ;D
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: denny on October 05, 2011, 03:36:28 PM
Um, let's not let this devolve into a union/non union thing.  I happen to know a lot of union workers who do a great job and are very reasonable people.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: theDarkSide on October 05, 2011, 03:52:46 PM
Um, let's not let this devolve into a union/non union thing.  I happen to know a lot of union workers who do a great job and are very reasonable people.

Like professional basketball players?  :D

I'm hoping my 2001 Honda Civic sticks around for a couple more years.  Bought it new in 2000 and I'd hate to have to say good-bye  :'(
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: dbeechum on October 05, 2011, 03:54:14 PM
Same with '00 mustang. Bought it 1 year used (6500 miles) and she's still going strong.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: Slowbrew on October 05, 2011, 04:08:18 PM
I agree the price of new cars is way overboard.  The price of used isn't any better.  I bought a 2004 Saturn Vue for the high schoolers last year and it seemed like a deal at $10K.  My 2002 F150 only cost $12K brand new.   :'(

The way a friend on mine who sells cars for a living explained the used market to me is Cash for Clunkers took a huge number of old oil burners off the road.  It also took an even larger number of what would be decent used cars now out of the market too.  Since every car traded in under C4Cs had to be scraped the base price for the remaining used cars was pushed up.  Good ol' supply and demand at work. 

I could have purchased a new Kia or something for about the same money as the Vue but insurance on those little cars is much higher than on a used SUV because they are typically driven by young'uns who have lots of accidents.

We got my wife's 2009 Chrysler Town and Country brand new for a song compared to the sticker price.  We bought it 2 weeks before Chrysler declared bankruptcy.

Assuming no (more) accidents these 3 cars should still be in our garage for 7 more years at which time my youngest goes to college and I might feel like I have some money again.  Even after health insurance increases.  Maybe.

If the powers that be measured inflation by the real cost of living the numbers would be shocking right now.  Sorry, I'll stop ranting.  8)

Paul
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 05, 2011, 04:14:35 PM
Thanks Paul, That is what I was getting at, Besides the reason that people surmise may be
 the driving force behind the cost...the cost is just disproportionate to where I believe
the cost should be......now better yet, what could be done to change/rectify this??????
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 05, 2011, 05:09:41 PM
Thanks Paul, That is what I was getting at, Besides the reason that people surmise may be
 the driving force behind the cost...the cost is just disproportionate to where I believe
the cost should be......now better yet, what could be done to change/rectify this??????

I don't think there's a comprehensive solution.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: denny on October 05, 2011, 05:28:20 PM
now better yet, what could be done to change/rectify this??????

Build a time machine and go back 50 years....
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: Slowbrew on October 05, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
now better yet, what could be done to change/rectify this??????

Build a time machine and go back 50 years....

I don't think a time machine would really help.  The country goes through booms and bust fairly regularly.  People 50 years ago were upset about the same things that we are today.  As Euge said there is no one big fix.

Sadly, the last time the country was at this point it was World War II that saved us.  We kick started our stateside economy to build a war machine.  When the war ended we were the only one standing.  If anyone in the world need something, they bought it from us.  Unless we want to go through that again, we need to find a different way.  Although Europe is starting to look like 1914 and 1939 again too so who knows.

Paul

*** Edit - I just want to point out that I am aware 1982 was not 50 years ago.  It's just the first recession I personally remember being affected by.   ;D
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 05, 2011, 08:32:17 PM
Part of the reason that the price for new vehicles has gone up is the content that is expected or required today. 

The cars of not so long ago were pretty basic.  Today you might have 10 airbags, antilock brakes, stabiltiy control, GPS, power everything, 6, 7, or 8 speed transmissions, direct fuel injection, turbocharging on more and more engines, stricter emissions controls, better crash structure, better rollover protection and so on.  the list goes on and keeps growing.  I forgot the computer controls to make it all work together.

New car buyers want it all, they don't always want to pay for it.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 05, 2011, 08:43:36 PM
Part of the reason that the price for new vehicles has gone up is the content that is expected or required today. 

The cars of not so long ago were pretty basic.  Today you might have 10 airbags, antilock brakes, stabiltiy control, GPS, power everything, 6, 7, or 8 speed transmissions, direct fuel injection, turbocharging on more and more engines, stricter emissions controls, better crash structure, better rollover protection and so on.  the list goes on and keeps growing.  I forgot the computer controls to make it all work together.

New car buyers want it all, they don't always want to pay for it.
True True.....I for one would rather work my muscles and actually turn the steering
wheel...and press on the brakes with the ole foot...heck I still drive a standard tranny...
THAN pay rip off prices for frills and convenience...but unfortunately, there are no
vehicles that are good yet basically equipped.  I said it before and I say it still, the blame
for this goes squarely upon the insurance industry.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 05, 2011, 08:44:37 PM
One of the attractions of the Mk5 is how spartan it is. All I wanted was AC and 4 wheel disk brakes. It also came with a radio and power windows but that's it. There were plenty of other unnecessary features for $$$.

But yes, I was gonna say that too. Most of the cars in the lots are loaded and that's where the profits are.

All my vehicles are paid for and maintained. Probably will be driving them 10-15 ears from now.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: Slowbrew on October 05, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
Part of the reason that the price for new vehicles has gone up is the content that is expected or required today. 

The cars of not so long ago were pretty basic.  Today you might have 10 airbags, antilock brakes, stabiltiy control, GPS, power everything, 6, 7, or 8 speed transmissions, direct fuel injection, turbocharging on more and more engines, stricter emissions controls, better crash structure, better rollover protection and so on.  the list goes on and keeps growing.  I forgot the computer controls to make it all work together.

New car buyers want it all, they don't always want to pay for it.
True True.....I for one would rather work my muscles and actually turn the steering
wheel...and press on the brakes with the ole foot...heck I still drive a standard tranny...
THAN pay rip off prices for frills and convenience...but unfortunately, there are no
vehicles that are good yet basically equipped.  I said it before and I say it still, the blame
for this goes squarely upon the insurance industry.

You're completely right about the all the extras.  The reason I got my truck for $12k was because it has cloth seats, manual transmission, manual windows, manual mirrors and an AM/FM/Cassette radio.  It doesn't even have cruise control but I love my truck.

Paul
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: tubercle on October 05, 2011, 09:56:27 PM
You're completely right about the all the extras.  The reason I got my truck for $12k was because it has cloth seats, manual transmission, manual windows, manual mirrors and an AM/FM/Cassette radio.  It doesn't even have cruise control but I love my truck.

Paul

 The last time I went shopping for a truck, that's exactly what I was looking for. No extras, no extended cab, just a truck. I couldn't find one. Do they even make one without extended cabs anymore?
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 05, 2011, 10:00:33 PM
Yeah I did not know you could get em like that...seems like when I ask, they say....
"well you have to have this Package"...blah blah blah...and that package is a batch
of over priced extra stuff...OH for a manual dimmer switch ON THE FLOORBOARD.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: morticaixavier on October 05, 2011, 10:01:50 PM
When I bought my VW Jetta TDI last year I tried to get as basic a package as I could,

Power everything,
6 disk CD with like eleventyseven speakers
6 speed standard tranny

and it was a hasle to get it without the glass roof, GPS etc

This was the MOST basic TDI they have.

(love my TDI though, goes like a rocketship, seats 5 comfortably with lots of cargo space and still gets 45 MPG)
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 05, 2011, 10:10:55 PM
I do remember that you could order the car you want with the options that you
desired to pay for...nothing more...and you did NOT have to lump one thing
you wanted into a package of 15 that you did not really desire..but would cost
you extra...Loss of customer service...a willing customer approaches you
to buy your product with money in hand and basically he is told...thppppppppp...
not enough money......or for a little more money you get.......blah blah blah....
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 05, 2011, 10:42:27 PM

All my vehicles are paid for and maintained. Probably will be driving them 10-15 ears from now.

You have a lot of ears!

I remember the old man having a truck with a 6 cylinder engine, a 3 speed trans, and only one tail light, no heater either!  Used hand signals when in town.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 06, 2011, 12:08:58 AM
Take a look at this.  Japan earthquake and tsuanmi was March 11.  Can you see the spike in used car prices due to lack of supply of new cars from Japan?  Go down to the table.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 06, 2011, 12:23:09 AM
I see your depiction. What I do NOT see is how people living within
their means  ....  yeah right....buy that many cars at all.... ???

Edit: a losing proposition of a lease would keep you strung out for years....
and then leave you ...carless...
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: denny on October 06, 2011, 12:24:37 AM
I see your depiction. What I do NOT see is how people living within
their means  ....  yeah right....buy that many cars at all.... ???

I don't buy that many cars...on average, I buy one every 20-25 years.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: 1vertical on October 06, 2011, 12:26:56 AM
I see your depiction. What I do NOT see is how people living within
their means  ....  yeah right....buy that many cars at all.... ???

I don't buy that many cars...on average, I buy one every 20-25 years.
I am at 23 years for my ole FOMOCO truck and still patching the ole gal back together.
I am due for a new infusion of automobile one I would like to take into retirement with me...
but sheesh...not at these prices....
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: Hokerer on October 06, 2011, 12:36:44 AM
f...OH for a manual dimmer switch ON THE FLOORBOARD.

plus about eleventy-billion !!!
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: euge on October 06, 2011, 01:23:12 AM
I see your depiction. What I do NOT see is how people living within
their means  ....  yeah right....buy that many cars at all.... ???

I don't buy that many cars...on average, I buy one every 20-25 years.
I am at 23 years for my ole FOMOCO truck and still patching the ole gal back together.
I am due for a new infusion of automobile one I would like to take into retirement with me...
but sheesh...not at these prices....

Find a used truck with low miles. Or a Subi. Personally I'd be happy with one of those air-cooled VW's made in Brazil up to 06. Ya know. A Beetle. Easy to fix. Sips gas. Tons of parts still.
Title: Re: Anyone besides me think the price of
Post by: punatic on October 06, 2011, 08:20:23 AM
Um, let's not let this devolve into a union/non union thing.  I happen to know a lot of union workers who do a great job and are very reasonable people.

And smoke weed at lunch?   ;D  Sounds pretty good to me.