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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: gmac on October 25, 2011, 04:12:24 PM

Title: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on October 25, 2011, 04:12:24 PM
In my fridge right now, I have a nice Saison, a hoppy APA, a pumpkin ale, a stout, a porter and an ESB.  Basically nothing my friends will drink.  Well, nothing my tasteless BMC drinking friends will drink.  My preferences are more towards English styles although I'm starting to like APAs a lot.  But, I don't really drink many lagers, especially the mass market types.

So, I'm looking for a clean, light lager style that would appeal to my friends who aren't craft beer drinkers.  I'm wondering about a CAP.  I haven't made one before so I'm looking for a good recipe that I can try.  Although it will obviously have some corn in it, I want to keep the quality as high as I can. 

Do you think that this would fit the bill for something that would appeal to the masses?  If so, can you please give me some guidance on a good recipe (I haven't checked the Wiki yet.  I think this is the style I need but I wanted to hear from you first)?
Thanks
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: richardt on October 25, 2011, 04:21:23 PM
I would suggest a beer that one might describe as a "dry" APA (i.e., not excessively sweet) or as a "light" IPA (low OG, around 1.050-0.055, clean and restrained bittering levels using Summit or Magnum hops, and plenty of fruity/estery/pine hop flavor and aroma from late kettle hop additions of Amarillo, Cascade, Citra, and Simcoe, but no dry hopping).  I prefer American Ale II (WY1272) over American Ale/Chico (WY1056).  If you're using BeerSmith, target everything on the low end of the IPA range (OG, SRM, IBU's, etc.)
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: corkybstewart on October 25, 2011, 04:21:45 PM
I brew a psuedo Kolsch for my wife and BMC drinkers, it's called Happy Wife ale and has been a house beer for 10 years at least.
10 pounds 2 row, 1 pound toasted at 350F for 20 minutes
1/2 pound Carapils
mash at 152
1.5 oz's Hallertau(around 4.5 AA) for 60 minutes
1 oz Hallertau at 20
1/2 oz hallertau at flameout
Nottingham yeast
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: bluesman on October 25, 2011, 04:26:31 PM
A clean and smooth Cream Ale is always a winner and easy to brew.  :)
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: Slowbrew on October 25, 2011, 04:37:46 PM
A clean and smooth Cream Ale is always a winner and easy to brew.  :)

+1

A very popular choice.

Paul
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: snowtiger87 on October 25, 2011, 04:49:13 PM
I say CAP. I love a good CAP. However, before I post my recipe I have a few questions for you?

1. Do you mind doing a cereal mash?

2. Can you step mash?

3. What size batch do you want to make?

4. Can you ferment a lager adequately? ( i.e 2 weeks at 50F and then lager at 32 or so)
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: dak0415 on October 25, 2011, 04:53:07 PM
A clean and smooth Cream Ale is always a winner and easy to brew.  :)

+1

A very popular choice.

Paul
++1 The Cream Ale keg is always the first kick at beer festivals.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: roguenationpatriot on October 25, 2011, 05:01:23 PM
I say force feed them imperial stouts until they come around.  ;D
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on October 25, 2011, 07:03:26 PM
I say CAP. I love a good CAP. However, before I post my recipe I have a few questions for you?

1. Do you mind doing a cereal mash?
No - would prefer to use corn meal (polenta) to corn grits just because it's much easier to get corn meal.

2. Can you step mash?
Yes - step mash in the kettle but have to transfer to a cooler to vorlauf. 

3. What size batch do you want to make?
5 or 10 (usually 5 for a new recipe, 10 if I like it and do it again)

4. Can you ferment a lager adequately? ( i.e 2 weeks at 50F and then lager at 32 or so)
Depends on the weather.  For the next 2 months - Yes. 

Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on October 25, 2011, 07:04:48 PM
A clean and smooth Cream Ale is always a winner and easy to brew.  :)
Got a good recipe?  I need to order yeast.  What yeast do you recommend? 
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: bluesman on October 25, 2011, 07:27:41 PM
A clean and smooth Cream Ale is always a winner and easy to brew.  :)
Got a good recipe?  I need to order yeast.  What yeast do you recommend?  

Try this for size!  :)

It's called Genessee My Butt!

This Homebrew Recipe was added by
Skotrat on April 16, 1999 at 11:03:52:
(Please contact them if you have questions about the Recipe)

Brewing Method: All Grain
Yeast: WYEAST 2035
Yeast Starter: 1/2 gallon
Batch Size: 15.5 US Gallons
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.010
Alcohol Content: 4.5-5.0 %
Total Grains: 30
Color: 4.4
Extract Efficiency: 75 %
Hop IBU's: 22.9
Boiling Time: 70 minutes
Primary Fermentation: 7 days at 62f
Secondary Fermentation: 7 days at 58f
Additional Fermentation: lagered in corny keg

Grain Bill:


Grain %  Amount     Name                      Origin        Gravity Color
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 56.7    17.00 lbs. Lager Malt(6-row)         Canada         1.031     1
 20.0     6.00 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize)       America        1.040     1
 10.0     3.00 lbs. Vienna Malt               America        1.035     4
  6.7     2.00 lbs. Munich Malt(light)        America        1.033    10
  6.7     2.00 lbs. Crystal 10L               America        1.035    10

Hop Bill:


Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.00 oz. Liberty Whole 3.40 19.6 60 min.
4.00 oz. Liberty Whole 3.40 3.3 5 min.

Mash Schedule:

Mash Type: Single Step
Saccharification Rest Temp : 152 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 166 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 70

Brewers Notes:

Side by side test was a dead ringer... Very nice brew

Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on October 25, 2011, 07:32:25 PM
I'll give it a try.  I'll just cut it all by 1/3 but I have to ask, how important is the C10?  That's the only thing I don't have right now (assuming I can use 2 lbs of corn meal instead of flaked corn).
Still open to a CAP recipe or even a good pilsner.  I'm more than happy to brew a few different trial batches.

Edit:  Just read it again and I don't have 6 row.  Can 2 row be used or do you need the graininess of 6 row?
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on October 25, 2011, 07:41:04 PM
I should add that I've done a couple batches of Kolsch that I really liked and so did my wife but I think it's still a bit different for the people I'm thinking of.  I find it a bit fruity (which I think it should be) so it's still a bit different than what they are used to.  I can see how it would be a good gateway beer.
One of my friends did ask if I could do a Sleeman type (by which he meant Sleeman Cream Ale) so this may well fit the bill.  Others seem to like Steam Whistle which is an all-grain pilsner.  I haven't done many lagers but I'm looking to try some.  I do have a fridge that I saved to put a temp controller on to get accurate 10C temperatures for brewing lagers. 

Biggest problem I have with lagers or lagered ales is a lack of kegs that I can tie up for 2 or 3 months.  I guess I'll have to get a few more if I want to get a lager into rotation.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: Slowbrew on October 25, 2011, 07:47:00 PM
I made this Cream Ale for the non-realbeer beer drinkers for Oktoberfest this year.  Very easy, light body and very tasty.

Cream Ale

Brewed: 7/2/11
Secondary:
Bottled: 7/16/2011 -  1 keg

IBU 18, SRM 3, ABV 5.4%

4.41lbs. 2 row pale (MO)
4.41lbs Pilsner Malt
1.76 lbs. Flaked Rice
3.36 AAU Liberty pellet hops (1.12oz/32g at 3%) – 60 Min.
1.68 AAU Liberty pellet hops (.56oz/16g at 3%) - 1 Min

Irish Moss – 15 min.

Single infusion 90 Min. 149 deg.,  1.5qt/lb. grist
Batch sparge.     SG: 1.040
      OG: 1.061
      FG:  1.006


Wyeast 1056 - American Ale yeast (2 liter starter)

1/3 Cup priming sugar


Paul
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: dzlater on October 25, 2011, 08:49:14 PM
I brewed the "Genesse My Butt" recipe it's a winner.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: corkybstewart on October 25, 2011, 09:09:43 PM
I made this Cream Ale for the non-realbeer beer drinkers for Oktoberfest this year.  Very easy, light body and very tasty.
Strangely for the past 2 years the most popular beer at our Oktoberfest are my rauchbiers.  The BMC crowd loves them for some reason.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on November 11, 2011, 03:05:11 PM
How do you think this would taste?
9 lbs Weyermann Pils malt
1 lbs Weyerman Munich 1

1.5 oz Hallertau @ 60
1/2 oz Hallertau @ 15 - Would an American hop be better? 
1/2 oz Hallertau @ 0  - Is this needed?

Wyeast 2035 American Lager - This is ready to go.  I made a 3 L starter, fermented it out, chilled, decanted and added 2 more liters of wort (only 1 gal juice bottle).

Ferment @ 45 to 50 degrees (ambient cold room temp, depends on the weather but it's been 50 for the last 2 weeks).

May brew tonight or Sunday.  Not sure but either way, do you think this would work?  I've been looking into CAPs but I don't have 6 row so I may get some and brew on with the slurry from this batch.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: a10t2 on November 11, 2011, 04:07:41 PM
I think that'll be too hoppy for the BMC crowd.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on November 11, 2011, 04:16:58 PM
Too hoppy or too bitter?
Drop the 15 and 0 additions and keep the 1.5 oz or drop that down to 1 oz and keep the late adds?
Thanks
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: a10t2 on November 11, 2011, 05:28:33 PM
Maybe both, actually. At 5% AA the bittering addition would be ~30 IBU, so I'd probably drop it to 1 oz at 5% AA. I'd get rid of the flameout addition, and maybe even the 15 min addition, depending on what you're going for.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on November 11, 2011, 06:37:47 PM
Thanks.  I think I'll drop down to an ounce at 60 but keep the 15 and drop the flameout.  Not really looking for a bud style as much as a "gateway" beer to get my friends to try something a touch hoppier and more "craft" than usual.  I'm not gonna try to match a bud or miller style, if that's what they want they can bring their own but I can understand why someone who's not used to IPA's would have trouble making that jump right from the start. 

I was targeting about 30 IBUs based on German Pilsner recipe's I saw, I'll tone this down to about 25 and see how it goes.
I will still do the Genesse clone, just don't have any 6 row but I've got a whole bag of pilsner malt. 

Sometimes I think part of the issue with non-craft drinkers is colour.  I brew a lot of ambers and darker and I think they have a preconceived expectation based on the colour that the beer is going to be "strong".  I like the idea of a nice light pilsner with decent hop presence to test their reaction.  Plus, I'll be drinking it too and I sure don't want to be drinking BMC.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: bonjour on November 12, 2011, 04:49:04 PM
Good answers,

Either Cream Ale or CAP.  I prefer CAP because I'll tell them this is the beer that what they like came from.  This gives them confidence that they may like it.

For the BMC crowd, stay away from American hops.  Start with either German or English hops,  don't worry about the bitterness with these hops, but they will object to American hops at the same bitterness levels.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on February 10, 2012, 02:47:23 PM
Just to follow up.  I did the Genesee clone using a cereal mash with cornmeal.  I used a big pitch of WY2035 from another beer.
It's ok.  I thought I kept the fermentation temps at the proposed levels but they not have been perfect.

The beer is ok but it's way too fruity in my opinion.  Seems more like a kolsch than a cream ale that I'm used to.  It will get drank but I'm not sold on this one yet, at least not the way I did it.

So, I am looking for a good CAP recipe.  Any suggestions?  I have 6 row, flaked corn and both WLP830 and WLP833 in the fridge.  I'm gonna take my beer out of my freezer and turn the heat up a bit to make it a 50F fermentation cabinet for the next little while to try to churn out some lagers for summer. 
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: tygo on February 10, 2012, 03:10:54 PM
You could go with 80% 6-row and 20% flaked corn and either of those yeasts.  I like to mix up the grist a bit by throwing some pilsner malt in there and I also throw a little vienna in as well to help punch up the flavor profile.  But you could go with just the 6-row and corn.  That's what I did when I started working on my recipe and it turned out a good beer.

For hops I go with Mt. Hood.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: denny on February 10, 2012, 04:28:36 PM
So, I am looking for a good CAP recipe.

Did you look at these?

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/2CClassicAmericanPilsner
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: gmac on February 10, 2012, 05:11:59 PM
So, I am looking for a good CAP recipe.

Did you look at these?

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/2CClassicAmericanPilsner
Hey Denny, you know I'm as Pro-wiki as anyone can be so actually yes I did.

I was intrigued (surprised, puzzled) by the two NHC winners.  One didn't appear to use any corn, the other used Steam yeast unless I'm reading this wrong.  I sort of thought that pilsner yeast and corn were implicit in this beer.  I'm not implying that they aren't awesome beer, they were just not quite what I was expecting to read when I opened them up.  I think one of the others also used the steam beer yeast.  I think part of my problem with the cream ale clone was that I didn't use the right temps (I put the thermometer in the water bath and it read 56 so I figured with fermentation temp I'd be pretty close).  That's why I'm thinking of trying a real cold ferment.  I want to do a 10 gal batch and a 10 gal batch of amber lager with 833 at the same time since I'm taking my beer freezer out of commission for 3 weeks.  Goal is to get at least 4 kegs to lager for summer.

Maybe I should start a new CAP thread?
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: bluesman on February 10, 2012, 05:13:41 PM
WLP830 will render the cleanest of flavors, while WLP833 will lend the maltier profile in my experience. They are both fantastic lager yeasts IMO.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: denny on February 10, 2012, 05:23:01 PM
So, I am looking for a good CAP recipe.

Did you look at these?

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/2CClassicAmericanPilsner
Hey Denny, you know I'm as Pro-wiki as anyone can be so actually yes I did.

Figured you had, but I had to ask!  Try a search for Jeff Renner's posts here.   He may have posted his CAP recipe somewhere. 
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: bonjour on February 10, 2012, 05:29:01 PM
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue3.5/renner.html

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter19-4.html

Jeff is the person (he will tell you that he had help) that brought back the style
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: richardt on February 10, 2012, 06:12:14 PM
http://www.byo.com/component/resource/article/2503-the-big-chill (http://www.byo.com/component/resource/article/2503-the-big-chill)
Gordon had a good article in Dec BYO with award winning recipes.
Lots of leeway with recipes, even for lagers (e.g., Dave Helt's use of Cali Ale yeast and long lagering period).
Good water, good ingredients, good process (temp control, sanitation, yeast), and time should all help you reach your goal.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: madscientist on February 10, 2012, 06:50:46 PM
My friends are hardcore BMC drinkers, (one person even posted on his FB how good Bud Light Platinum was), but slowly they are coming over to the craft beer side.  It's nice to see.  My crowd pleaser is something light and drinkable, and like many have said you can't go wrong with a cream ale.  Simple/effective.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: euge on February 11, 2012, 04:15:59 AM
I know the request was for a lager of some sort and kolsch was brought up. Which is an excellent alternative. And a cream ale too, but what- no blonde ale? I've made a couple and they were quite clean. If I presented them as lagers to BMC drinkers I doubt an eye would have been raised as to whether they were or not.

Please don't take that as a promotion to decieve your friends. ;D
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: malzig on February 12, 2012, 08:04:54 PM
I used a big pitch of WY2035 from another beer.
It's ok.  I thought I kept the fermentation temps at the proposed levels but they not have been perfect.

The beer is ok but it's way too fruity in my opinion.  Seems more like a kolsch than a cream ale that I'm used to.  It will get drank but I'm not sold on this one yet, at least not the way I did it.
It the 2035 that's the problem.  It's a difficult yeast, to put it kindly.  I'd stay away from it.
WLP830 will render the cleanest of flavors, while WLP833 will lend the maltier profile in my experience. They are both fantastic lager yeasts IMO.
I'd agree with that.  WLP830 or Wy2124 are one of the most forgiving lager yeasts.   They tolerate higher temperatures well, stay quite clean and flocculate well.  If fermented well, you shouldn't need more than a couple weeks of lagering to drop the beer clear.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: tygo on February 13, 2012, 02:51:37 AM
It the 2035 that's the problem.  It's a difficult yeast, to put it kindly.  I'd stay away from it.

I agree.  I ran a split batch comparison once between 2124 and 2035 in a CAP and the 2124 was the clear winner with 2035 producing the characteristics described above.
Title: Re: I need something for the masses
Post by: sharg54 on February 19, 2012, 10:42:49 PM
JMHO but if you want to turn your friends heads I would go for a Cap. It has got to the point if I brew one I don't let my friends know about it as they always want to come over and drink it all up. I've always been a fan of old school is the best school when it comes to a cap and the fact that it is a very basic brew makes that even more important IMO.
 
Simple Recipe I use goes like this for a six gallon batch.
8 lbs of US 6 row but 2 will work.
2 lbs of flaked maze if you are using 6 row and corn meal if you are using 2 row. The corn Meal picks up the grain taste a little more for some reason.
.5 lb of rice. To dry out the finish a little. ( to much thins it out and kills the malt)
Do a cereal mash with the corn meal and rice ( run the rice through a blender it works better) If using flaked rice and corn skip the cereal mash.
Mash in at 130 degrees for 30 minuets.
Infuse to 153 Degrees for total conversion (if you ran a cereal mash use it to step up the temp. cool whats left to 153 and add it to the mash.
Batch sparge with equal amounts of 170 degree water to obtain 7.5 gallons of wort.
90 min boil
.5 oz sazz at 75 min
1.5 oz sazz at 60 min.
 .5 oz sazz at 20 min
.25 oz sazz at 7 min.
OG at end of boil 1.054 give or take at 6.25 gallons.
Chill to pitching temp of 52 degrees.
Make a half gallon starter with White Labs Pilsner 800 3 days in advance and (slowly) cool to 52 degrees.
Ferment until Gravity reaches 1.020 and raise to 60 deg for a D rest for 48 hours. Mine ends up at an FG of 1.012 after the D rest.
Transfer to secondary after D rest and crash to 35 degrees for one week.
I bottle so I prime for one week at 62 degrees before crashing it again to 32 degrees for two weeks. Total time roughly 5 to 6 weeks to enjoy.
Good luck..
People always ask why I do it this way... Simple answer is it works and it taste fantastic and is as smooth as a babies back side. LOL :P