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Messages - dmtaylor

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1
The Pub / Re: The future has never seemed more bleak
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:23:34 PM »
By the time 2099 hits, each of us will either be dead, or sorted by social classes into the "haves" and "have-nots".  I intend to be dead, and prior to that, one of the "haves".  My kids are bright and should be okay as well.  If they were morons, I might be a little more worried, maybe.  But of course, when we're dead we won't really care.

2
Ingredients / Re: Apples in Brown Ale
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:15:34 PM »
Anyone ever try replacing the strike water with cider?  I've done replacement with maple sap but never cider, which has a lot more sugar content.  I'm very tempted to try it on a small (1-2 gallon batch size) scale.

No, and it seems like a pretty bad idea for all-grain brewing.  I just checked the pH of my 2018 juice and it's 3.5.  Not suitable for mashing at that pH.

If brewing with extract, though, I'll bet it would turn out good.

3
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Lager Won't Clear
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:57:36 AM »
Gelatin is very effective at removing yeast haze.  You must have something else, like a starch or protein haze.  How did you mash?  What temperature and for how long?  How was the crush?  Was it done at the LHBS?  Did you measure mash pH?

4
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Troubleshooting Final Gravity
« on: October 14, 2018, 04:57:10 PM »
You must have mashed too hot and killed off the beta amylase quickly.  That would explain the low attenuation better than anything else.

5
You did everything right.  One thing I wonder is that since S-04 is an ale yeast, it might still be in its replication phase while getting accustomed to fermenting something not malt-based. At any rate I fully expect it will start to ferment very soon in the next 36 hours and if not, the yeast might just be bad for some unknown reason and if so then just buy some wine yeast (like Cote des Blancs), pitch that in, and everything will turn out just fine.

6
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Cider Harvest
« on: October 12, 2018, 11:22:54 AM »
Great to see somebody having the success I did in 2017.

I began with 3 trees.  One tree died of fireblight in late 2017.  This year, rose chafer beetles killed every apple on my other 2 trees.  That's how my season went!  I poisoned the chafer larvae, so hopefully 2019 is a bumper crop year!

7
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 11, 2018, 10:45:12 AM »
Was your Old Fashioned made with simple syrup or made with gomme syrup?

Collins Cocktail Cherry Juice and Sprite... and a splash of water because while I like my old fashioneds sweet, I don't like them cloyingly sweet nor overly whiskeyed.  I also stir the bejesus out of it so it's totally uniform.

8
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 11, 2018, 01:52:51 AM »
^^^^
I think we can confidently posit causation,  not mere correlation.   Finally, on something.  8)

Well, it also feels better not being at work anymore, so....

9
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 11, 2018, 01:45:27 AM »
New drunken revelation!:  Fresh NEIPAs are hazy PRIMARILY BECAUSE....

Dry hops contain enzymes which convert unconverted complex dextrins into fermentable sugars and it keeps the yeast eating and in suspension otherwise they'd be settling out but since they're not done eating they don't.

Discuss.  Or don't.  I don't care.
Seems you're feeling better now.  Cheers!  So... Primarily?  Dunno.  In part at least?  Why the heck not.   Except that besides attenuation, the other big purpose of dry hopping back in the day was rapid clarification; but then the mechanism there is providing lots of polyphenols to complex with proteins and all settle out, which will not have gone to completion in said FRESH Knee-pah, so maybe, hmm...

Yeah... it's so VITAL to consume your NEIPA within SECONDS of it getting into the can that you need to go wait in line for 20 minutes in the NE to get the freshest stuff.  Even though it kind of sucks.  But yeah.

Yes, I feel very much better, now, thank you.  I'm trashed, not on beer but on 3 (or maybe more soon?) good old fashioned Wisconsin whiskey old fashioneds with cherry juice, yummo.  I do drink stuff other than beer on occasion.  This was one of many of those occasions.  Cheers all.

10
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 11, 2018, 01:23:57 AM »
New drunken revelation!:  Fresh NEIPAs are hazy PRIMARILY BECAUSE....

Dry hops contain enzymes which convert unconverted complex dextrins into fermentable sugars and it keeps the yeast eating and in suspension otherwise they'd be settling out but since they're not done eating they don't.

Discuss.  Or don't.  I don't care.

11
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 11:08:19 PM »
I'll be dry hopping again for sure next time I have a stuck fermentation.  That's what I've learned.  You all can do what you like but that's what I've learned.

12
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 08:05:27 PM »
If you're going to throw out my experience, then why not throw out everything else I've ever said, too.  Why not throw out everything anybody says?  Why do we talk?  Why are we on forums?  Why do we exist?  Why do we bother?  Just so we can cast doubt all over everywhere to boost our own egos?

Since when do we all need to be friggin: A) scientists, or B) celebrities, to be of any value in this universe???

I'm fed up with a lot of stuff but just answer me that question, that one really bugs the crap out of me.  And perhaps maybe in part because I *am* a scientist, at least by degree.

Run your own damned experiments, and don't accept anybody's word on anything until you do, ESPECIALLY scientists and celebrities who THINK they know everything but really don't know jack.

Sorry, I'm very tired.  I need a nap, but won't get one today.

Alright, back on track.................

How do I know what I think I know?  Prior to dry hopping, I kept the fermenter warm at about 73 F and swirled daily for several days, with no activity.  Also, I soaked my dry hops in vodka prior to adding, so I seriously doubt it's wild critters or even oxygen.  THAT is why I think it could be enzymes.  Other variables are largely eliminated.  Perhaps not entirely, but... largely.

Gosh I'm crabby today.  Somebody needs a beer ASAP.

13
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:38:07 PM »
What if it was introduction of a small amount of oxygen when you dry-hopped that 're-stimulated' fermentation?

That, I think, is a very real possibility as well.  Who knows.  I haven't placed samples into a gas chromatograph since college..... that was a looooooooooooooong time ago.  Nor a DO meter, if such a thing exists (I am guessing it does?!).

14
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:36:53 PM »
How much hops did you add?  Has it happened more than once?  How can you track  it to disaster in the hops?

I believe his point is that fermentation was stable for several weeks, until the 0.67 oz of dry hops were added.

My question on this is: The typical advice for drinking hoppy beers, commercial or homebrew, has been to drink them as fresh as possible to avoid [loss of?] "freshness" (aroma, flavor, whatever). How much of that issue is due to aging/oxidizing hop compounds vs. change in the beer related to these enzymes? I imagine that'd be more of an issue for packaged beer.

Thank you for your support, sir.  You get it.

It is clear to me is that a dry hopped beer will tend to evolve with age.  However there continues to be a lot of variables at play.  Is this evolution due more to oxidation, or enzymes, or both, or something else?  The greater question I would have: Has the brewer allowed the dry hop enzymes to finish doing their thing prior to packaging, or did they immediately package the beer before the enzymes could take effect and then expect you to drink it all up within a week of packaging, or not, or what?  In my case, I left the beer in secondary long after I dry hopped, until Final-Final Gravity of 1.013 was reached.  This took a long time actually, 17 days after dry hopping to be precise!  I think most brewers out there would be hesitant to dry hop for as long as I did prior to consumption, which indicates to me that evolution IN THE PACKAGE is happening all over the dang place, and might very well be the true reason why people say "drink it fresh!" based on flavor impacts, without fully understanding why we should drink it that fresh or how fast the "freshness" disappears.  I don't know if people understand or will ever agree upon the definition of "fresh"... to some perhaps this means "within the first 17 days of dry hopping" or of packaging!?!?  Can the exact number of days be quanitified and agreed upon by all brewers?!  Good luck with that!  And so what if they wait longer than 17 days or whatever.... is the beer just drier / lower gravity / more attenuated at that point than the brewer intended?  Or is there some other biotransformation or oxidation going on?  And does this continue far beyond the first 17 days or whatever?!  Gosh, I don't know, I don't have all the answers, and I really don't think ANYONE does or ever will!  Very few if any folks today understand very well what's all going on when they dry hop, and what "freshness" really means and whether and why it matters, IF it matters.  We all have a lot more to learn.  Few have run any extensive experiments on dry hopping to know what process they like best, why they like it best, and how much it matters.  We all just have a tendency to do whatever the "experts" do without question and without our own experience to form our own opinions.  I'm still learning too.  I only have this one experience to go by so far.... but it was an accidental eureka moment for me, I was like hey wait a minute.... why should dry hopping unstick a stuck fermentation..... and this one experience I've had might still be infinitely better than the zero experience that many others have who will argue tooth & nail that they've got all the answers when really they have nothing but what someone else told them.

But anyway.  Sorry if this sounds ranty........ it just kind of all spilled out in an ugly disorganized manner, and I'm too busy today to edit it.... so.... there you go, take it or ignore it, it honestly doesn't matter as much to me as it might sound.

Cheers all.

15
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 02:57:37 PM »
Good to know, I'm going to try dry hopping for the first time ever.  Lol!

It's not an issue unless you're dry hopping at extremely high levels.

Disagree.  A little dab did me.

Yer gonna have to convince me it Was the hops since science and testing says otherwise.  How many times has it happened?  What makes you relate it to dry hops?

Again?!  I might be unable to convince you, but can't see why my experience is unconvincing just because it's not "sciency" enough.  Here it is once again:

Dry hopped?  Hops contain enzymes.  Look up "The Freshening Power of Hops" and "hop creep".

Yeah, and sugars, but it's a stretch to go there for this case.  All reports of those eff3cts involve KARGE amounts of dry hops

My experience with my recent maibock with 0.67 oz Palisades as a dry hop:

5/28 1.062
6/3   1.019
6/25 1.019 stalled for 22 days!, added dry hops
7/3   1.017 fizzing again, racked to secondary
7/12 1.013 no more fizzing, bottled

Maybe that's a "KARGE" amount of hops, maybe not, I dunno, you be the judge.  That's my experience though.

Key things to stress: "stalled for 22 days!", then added dry hops, then SG finally fell from 1.019 to 1.013.  There was friggin no activity at all for 22 days.  (The only reason I waited so long to dry hop is that I was out of state on vacation -- checked gravity before and after vacation.)

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