I got caught up on this riveting thread. I felt bad for Amanda, kind of like she fixed thanksgiving dinner for us and we ransaked the place... feeling. Then I took a shower because, im just waking up and need to get ready to go make the donuts.
The thought I had, I've seen numerous times where this forum has been adamant toward people such as Marshall, that unless you follow the exact same process, with the exact same timing, and exact same ingredients, there will always be a difference. We cheer these guys when they go to great lengths to exactly replicate those issues. Mull that over and apply it to the idea that german techniques and ingredients aren't important when trying to brew their beers as similarly as possible. I fully understand the "not enough difference for me" thinking. I'm not trying to defend or attack anyone. I'm just sharing some passing thoughts. If we should pay no attention to what german brewers do when trying to homebrew german beers, then I might suggest that we ignore what sour beer brewers are doing... throw out your oak. Ignore what west coast IPA brewers are doing... quit wasting dry hops, throw out your hop rockets hop backs and torpedos. Etc etc....
This is very close to what I've been trying to say, in the past.
Obviously, this kind of discussion belongs in a thread that is different than Amanda's.
Sorry Amanda, for side tracking.
I applaud you, for doing this comparison.
The small problem I see lies in the fact that it is a ramped mash running through all temperatures, utilizing a lengthened single saccharification rest vs a ramped mash with 2 lengthened rests at alpha & beta temps.
It's different than what I had originally thought she was attempting, because it's not a "single infusion" vs "step mash".
So...It's MY understanding of what was originally stated that is the problematic flaw.
I have a feeling you'll see the results are similar, because you have hit all the same temperatures.
Only time will tell, as your results are realized.
The unfortunate thing I find with this particular forum is that when you go against a theory that something is "not necessary" or "not worth doing", you get jumped on.
The whole "It's been proven to me by my quadruple hexagonal blind upside-down study & my group of anonymous goatherds, in the Andes" is great...
But, proving something to one group doesn't make it fact, for the entire world of brewing.
Furthermore, I believe that when we evaluate homebrew, by comparing it to other homebrew, we completely miss the point of the BJCP's use of classic examples in their calibration.
If a VAST amount of German beers within those classic examples have IT & a homebrew scores in the "classic example" range without having IT...I feel that was a flawed scoring of that homebrew.
I can't speak on whether Denny's lagers have "IT".
I've never tasted them, to be able to compare them to the classic examples.
Bryan is absolutely not saying homebrew is a lesser product...
He's saying that he holds HIS brews to a higher standard than many folks do.
He wants his basement brewery to be every bit as good as a professional brewery, in Munich that produces a classic example bier.
No one should ever fault him, for that.
A group of us work damn hard at weeding out what we know doesn't work.
When we find what absolutely does...Maybe we'll let you in on the secret.