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Messages - guvna

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Yeast and Fermentation / Re: German Ale Yeast 1007
« on: November 19, 2009, 06:13:41 PM »
Ok. I just realized that I may have over-pitched tremendously. While using the mr.malty pitch rate calculator, I did a 1 L starter to get about 200 billion cells, and then pitched that into a 3L starter. (All with stir-plate.) My mistake was that when stepping up I should have upped the # of vials slider to two (for two billion cells). Instead of pitching 349 billion cells, I pitched somewhere along the lines of 513. On top of that, I oxygenated quite a bit. Would this have been a likely cause for my sulfur problem?

Sorry skyler, I don't have an answer for you based on experience, but I'd say go for it!

I think you may be confusing extraction and conversion to some extent.

I think you're right. Is extraction the ability to get sugars out of the husk? Or what?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« on: November 19, 2009, 11:09:39 AM »
The only real way to truly understand what if any effect the yeast has on the hop aroma is by brewing the same formulation only changing the yeast and doing a blind tasting.

+1, though speculation and critical thinking is fun! I like working things out in theory and testing expectation through experimentation.

Wouldn't it be best to first see if the crystal malt can actually convert itself? You can test different lengths of time steeping just crystal malt; maybe after 20, 40, and 60 minutes, and even longer if you have to. This may tell you whether crystal can actually convert itself, and, if so, how long it would take.

I am assuming the length of time would matter a lot because specialty malt doesn't have much diastatic power, and the added time would allow the enzymes to "get around" to all the starch. (Unless enzymes denature over time?)

It seems many extract brewers do not wait all 60 minutes while steeping. I know I was instructed by my LHBS to just wait 30 minutes. Doing one test at 60 minutes may give you a false impression because at that point there may have been enough time for the conversion.

Wouldn't the test I described answer directly whether “crystal malts require pale malt for adequate extraction"? If it can't convert itself, then you would want to move on to step two to determine whether base malts would help get adequate conversion, and how much they help.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« on: November 19, 2009, 10:33:37 AM »
I do still want to point out, because I just realized that it hasn't been yet, that there may be some aromas scrubbed out by CO2 during fermentation. Dry-hopping in the secondary may give you that hop aroma you're expecting from an IPA.

This may be a silly question, but how would gravity measurements let you know whether a sugar is more or less fermentable? I'd imagine that this could only be determined after fermentation with equal pitch rates and yeast strain based on the terminal gravity.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« on: November 18, 2009, 07:52:10 PM »
Like you, I wouldn't want to perpetuate any rumors, but now that you mention it,  I do remember hearing something along those lines; that hop oils do coat yeast and bacteria, and that it's part of the anti-microbial action of the hops; but to what extent I'm not sure.

I did a google search and came up with a few links:

This one on hop oils says:
It is generally agreed that the addition of hop oil to filtered beer does not produce a satisfactory flavor since some contact time with yeast is necessary to remove "raw hop," "tobacco," and "grassy" notes.

Not sure what this means, but this pdf says this:
Additionally, a “late hopped” beer will contain a proportion of flavor active compounds that have been formed from hop oil components by yeast mediated, trans-esterification reactions during fermentation.

This might clarify the previous post:
Added pre-fermentation a different hop oil character will result due to the chemical reactions of the volatile compounds during fermentation and the impact of the yeast metabolism.

Jims from the northern brewer forums says:
That being said I believe it is preferable to dry hop in a secondary. The reason is that yeast will "absorb" or become coated with some of those hop oils which will reduce the flavor that you will get from the dry hop.

Anyways, I still don't think you have much to worry about using an English strain for your IPA. People do this all the time. High flocculation or not, they add finings, filter, cold crash, etc., all with the intent to drop the yeast out of suspension; and still come up with great hoppy beers.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: English Yeast and Hop Aroma
« on: November 18, 2009, 11:16:43 AM »
All I can think of is that some yeast strains seem to support malty or hoppy flavors and aromas, while others are so estery in themselves that it takes center-stage in the beer's perception. The end perception would be dependent on yeast strain, fermentation temp., and, of course, your recipe.

Kegging and Bottling / Re: Crash Cooling and Bottling
« on: November 16, 2009, 11:47:01 AM »
It may likely take longer to carbonate, but with patience it will work just fine.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: German Ale Yeast 1007
« on: November 16, 2009, 09:56:07 AM »
Using Wy1007, I can't recall ever getting sulfur in my alts.  What yeast did you use?

Really? I'm 100% certain it was the 1007, and less than 100% certain that I'm picking up a good bit of sulfur one week into fermentation.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: German Ale Yeast 1007
« on: November 16, 2009, 08:53:36 AM »
sulfur is not uncommon.

I would let it sit another week to clean up before moving it to condition.  This is a style that does benefit from a secondary/lager for a month or so before bottling.

what size starter did you make?  sounds like your yeast got a little stressed.

Starter was pretty big. Pitched one packet into 1L starter on stir-plate, then stepped up to 2.5L starter on a stir-plate. Did some good oxygenation, as well. Fermentation started in about 2.5 hours. I even roused the fermenter a bit every day based on some discussions we've had on this forum recently. I think some age may help. Maybe this yeast is prone to sulfur?

Will definitely let it sit for at least two more weeks. Probably won't lager it as, unfortunately, I don't have the space to do that and keep brewing. I'll chalk this up as a learning experience, if anything, and point to the part of the bjcp style guideline that says "Some yeast strains may impart a slight sulfury character."


Yeast and Fermentation / German Ale Yeast 1007
« on: November 16, 2009, 07:45:15 AM »
I made what I hope will turn out to be a Dusseldorf Alt about a week ago. With a slightly higher OG at 1.065, it fermented at 58F for a week down to 1.012. Tasting the sample, it's pretty sulfury. I heard this may be typical for lager styles, and cooler temperatures in general. I've since increased the temperature to 63F to get it to finish out.

I don't secondary, so was just wondering how long I should let it sit in primary (assuming it's done fermenting and crashed to 32F) before bottling? If I bottle too soon, would there be a greater likelihood for a sulfury beer?

I think the only real way of knowing for sure would be to test every few days, but is there a typical period of lagering for these types of beers? I'd prefer to get this carboy out of my chest freezer asap so that I can get something new in there!

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
« on: November 15, 2009, 06:42:33 PM »
Mash temp?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Trub/break in starters
« on: November 13, 2009, 10:13:17 AM »
I never worry about starter cold break. It seems almost negligible in relation to the amount of cold break you'll likely get from your actual wort, and I don't consider it worth the extra handling and chance of infection of the yeast prior to pitching it.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Foam Stopper-Starter
« on: November 12, 2009, 08:16:37 PM »
I just use tin-foil; either dunked in star-san or sprayed with iodophor, depending on what's in front of me. Honestly, the stoppers or air-locks are really unnecessary for starters. Bacteria travels on dust particles. As demonstrated by Louis Pasteur, there's no way for bacteria or other microbes to climb up and in to your container if it has some tin-foil over the top. Simple, cheap, and effective. Just don't seal off the container!

If I were to use a stopper, I'd probably clean and soak it in star-san before putting it on the flask and setting the flask in an ice bath. Either the star-san or the steam will sanitize it, but both would be almost fool-proof, and I'd be damned to neglect an extra line of defense!

+1 on the Fermcap! Though I sometimes get boil-overs even while using it!

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