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Messages - Hella Hazy

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: The Six New Beer Styles of 2018
« on: October 16, 2018, 09:17:16 PM »
It's 6 styles now that may or may not be added? Thought it was only 4 - NEIPA, Burton ale, NZ Pils and Catharina sour.

The Mexican lager and Grisette I don't recall being considered before...

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 08:59:15 PM »
If you're going to throw out my experience, then why not throw out everything else I've ever said, too.  Why not throw out everything anybody says?  Why do we talk?  Why are we on forums?  Why do we exist?  Why do we bother?  Just so we can cast doubt all over everywhere to boost our own egos?

Since when do we all need to be friggin: A) scientists, or B) celebrities, to be of any value in this universe???

I'm fed up with a lot of stuff but just answer me that question, that one really bugs the crap out of me.  And perhaps maybe in part because I *am* a scientist, at least by degree.

Run your own damned experiments, and don't accept anybody's word on anything until you do, ESPECIALLY scientists and celebrities who THINK they know everything but really don't know jack.

Sorry, I'm very tired.  I need a nap, but won't get one today.

Alright, back on track.................

How do I know what I think I know?  Prior to dry hopping, I kept the fermenter warm at about 73 F and swirled daily for several days, with no activity.  Also, I soaked my dry hops in vodka prior to adding, so I seriously doubt it's wild critters or even oxygen.  THAT is why I think it could be enzymes.  Other variables are largely eliminated.  Perhaps not entirely, but... largely.

Gosh I'm crabby today.  Somebody needs a beer ASAP.

You really shouldn't be taking anything said in this thread personally at all. No one is trying to discredit your empirical results - and this is why we're having this discussion or any discussion on here. As a scientist myself, I was merely suggesting that we need to be more careful with our language when it comes to saying that one observation point proves a hypothesis. The fermentation phenomenon you experienced could SUGGEST that enzymes from the dry hops were further attenuating the beer, but it does not PROVE anything. Proof is much more difficult, and involves much more rigor. That being said, we can still TALK about what data points we've collected and observations we've made, I just don't think we can make any sound conclusions without doing the actual hard experiments.

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops can convert starches
« on: October 10, 2018, 05:57:57 PM »
How much hops did you add?  Has it happened more than once?  How can you track  it to disaster in the hops?

I believe his point is that fermentation was stable for several weeks, until the 0.67 oz of dry hops were added.

My question on this is: The typical advice for drinking hoppy beers, commercial or homebrew, has been to drink them as fresh as possible to avoid [loss of?] "freshness" (aroma, flavor, whatever). How much of that issue is due to aging/oxidizing hop compounds vs. change in the beer related to these enzymes? I imagine that'd be more of an issue for packaged beer.

Thank you for your support, sir.  You get it.

It is clear to me is that a dry hopped beer will tend to evolve with age.  However there continues to be a lot of variables at play.  Is this evolution due more to oxidation, or enzymes, or both, or something else?  The greater question I would have: Has the brewer allowed the dry hop enzymes to finish doing their thing prior to packaging, or did they immediately package the beer before the enzymes could take effect and then expect you to drink it all up within a week of packaging, or not, or what?  In my case, I left the beer in secondary long after I dry hopped, until Final-Final Gravity of 1.013 was reached.  This took a long time actually, 17 days after dry hopping to be precise!  I think most brewers out there would be hesitant to dry hop for as long as I did prior to consumption, which indicates to me that evolution IN THE PACKAGE is happening all over the dang place, and might very well be the true reason why people say "drink it fresh!" based on flavor impacts, without fully understanding why we should drink it that fresh or how fast the "freshness" disappears.  I don't know if people understand or will ever agree upon the definition of "fresh"... to some perhaps this means "within the first 17 days of dry hopping" or of packaging!?!?  Can the exact number of days be quanitified and agreed upon by all brewers?!  Good luck with that!  And so what if they wait longer than 17 days or whatever.... is the beer just drier / lower gravity / more attenuated at that point than the brewer intended?  Or is there some other biotransformation or oxidation going on?  And does this continue far beyond the first 17 days or whatever?!  Gosh, I don't know, I don't have all the answers, and I really don't think ANYONE does or ever will!  Very few if any folks today understand very well what's all going on when they dry hop, and what "freshness" really means and whether and why it matters, IF it matters.  We all have a lot more to learn.  Few have run any extensive experiments on dry hopping to know what process they like best, why they like it best, and how much it matters.  We all just have a tendency to do whatever the "experts" do without question and without our own experience to form our own opinions.  I'm still learning too.  I only have this one experience to go by so far.... but it was an accidental eureka moment for me, I was like hey wait a minute.... why should dry hopping unstick a stuck fermentation..... and this one experience I've had might still be infinitely better than the zero experience that many others have who will argue tooth & nail that they've got all the answers when really they have nothing but what someone else told them.

But anyway.  Sorry if this sounds ranty........ it just kind of all spilled out in an ugly disorganized manner, and I'm too busy today to edit it.... so.... there you go, take it or ignore it, it honestly doesn't matter as much to me as it might sound.

Cheers all.

Not to put words in Denny's mouth, but I think the point he may be that while indeed you did notice resumption of a stuck fermentation after adding the dry hop charge, you cannot definitively say that it was due to enzymatic activity from the hops. Now the converse is also true - you cannot definitively say it did not happen because of hop enzymes. The point is, correlation doesn't equal causation.

I'm inclined to believe as already stated that it could have been a combination of factors that caused your fermentation to resume - oxygen ingress, the yeast being slightly shaken up due to the hop addition, enzymes in the hops, and even potentially microbial contributions from the hops themselves (while hops have antimicrobial properties, they are not sterile). However, short of doing a proper fully controlled experiment with tons of replicates for statistical power (which almost none of us are doing), we can't know for sure.

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Beer Recipes / Re: Tropical Stout
« on: October 05, 2018, 08:09:29 PM »
Seems like a lot of different specialty malts. Maybe try using fewer next time?

Also, the notes you got back on this beer seem kind of odd. I thought that tropical stouts were not supposed to be overtly roasty, and kind of like Baltic porter they're supposed to be made with dehusked roasted malts?

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Pics of recent brews?
« on: November 09, 2017, 06:48:04 PM »
Those beers are absolutely gorgeous. Any particular tips for such great clarity + outstanding foam?

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Beer Recipes / Re: 'Black witbier'
« on: June 02, 2017, 01:18:54 AM »
haha wow looks like I opened up a can of worms on this one.

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Pics of recent brews?
« on: May 31, 2017, 02:04:01 AM »
Rustic/3726 Saison late hopped with a little Lemon Drop. Has an earthy, peppery, slightly fruity yeast character, with the added slight lemony hop character. A really good beer.




Very interested in playing around with lemon drop hops. I wonder if anyone has tried using them in a hoppy sour a la Mike Tonsmeire's #2 recipe in this article: https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3500-hoppy-sour-beers

I wonder if the lactic acid & lemon drop hops would work well together in the style... I may have to try it myself sometime!

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Beer Recipes / Re: 'Black witbier'
« on: May 30, 2017, 05:54:26 PM »
I also like the idea, I would drop the munich and add the lion's share of the dark malt at sparge (and sparge a little cooler than usual <160F) like with a black IPA. I would also drop it to ~2 tangerines and maybe 3 star anise stars. You could also add brewers' licorice, if you wanted. FWIW, I like my witbiers around 1.048 and with ~15 IBUs.
Yeah def going to drop the # of tangerines. I was only thinking of adding Munich since it's a darker beer and may give that impression of cola that I sometimes get from Munich malt... thought it would compliment the licorice.

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Beer Recipes / Re: 'Black witbier'
« on: May 20, 2017, 09:59:31 PM »
Last time I used anise it was at an attempt to make a Pennsylvania swankey... and I used about 4.5g which I guess is about 0.15 oz. Couldn't taste it at all. I want to at least triple it... maybe 0.5oz is a good next point to try.

Did you use star anise or anise seed for the swankey? Swankey was made with anise seed.

Actually looking back on my notes in more detail I used both - 3.0g of anise seed and 1.5g of star anise.

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Beer Recipes / Re: 'Black witbier'
« on: May 15, 2017, 08:21:26 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'll definitely cut back on the midnight wheat and tangerines, and ... consider starting the star anise lower.

I only hesitate on the anise because I find that what most people consider way too much licorice is just at the low end of the threshold for me, since I love the flavor and can't get enough of it.

Last time I used anise it was at an attempt to make a Pennsylvania swankey... and I used about 4.5g which I guess is about 0.15 oz. Couldn't taste it at all. I want to at least triple it... maybe 0.5oz is a good next point to try.

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Beer Recipes / 'Black witbier'
« on: May 15, 2017, 12:54:26 AM »
Hi all,

I'm working on a concept beer - a 'black witbier.' The basic idea is to be a witbier but black in color (which I realize is an oxymoron), with minimal roast of course and with a heavy charge of anise to give it a strong black licorice impression in addition to coriander/orange peel. I've heard people say tangerines work particularly well for witbiers so my recipe in the making thus far is as follows:

40% pils
33% flaked wheat
10% midnight wheat (550 SRM)
8% flaked oats
8% Munich II
Mash @ 153F
21 IBUs hallertau @ 60min
0.5oz of Indian coriander, zest of 6 tangerines, and 1oz star anise (crushed) at T-5 minutes before end of boil.
Ferment with WLP410 Belgian Wit II at 68F

Note I am a man who LOVES black licorice so if 1oz of star anise sounds like way too much to you... I might be in the right ballpark for my tastes ;)

Any thoughts? Thanks!

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Beer Recipes / Re: Tropical Stouts
« on: May 15, 2017, 12:39:33 AM »
I've never brewed one, but my current 'to-brew' recipe formulation is as follows:

75% Golden promise
10% turbinado sugar
5% roasted barley (550 SRM)
5% extra dark crystal (160 SRM)
3% Carafa special III
2% Chocolate (430 SRM)
Mash @ 153F
34 IBUs of EKG hops @ 60 min
Ferment with Cry Havoc (WLP862), which I believe is a lager strain, at 62F

Should give me something OG 1.073, FG 1.017, 7.5% abv
With those specs I'm expecting something on the sweet side but hopefully not cloying, with just enough roast so you know it's a stout and hopefully a rum-raisiny impression from the crystal malt + turbinado sugar.

Just a shot in the dark though, basically I slightly tweaked Gordon's recipe in BYO.

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Pics of recent brews?
« on: May 08, 2017, 09:12:54 PM »
Some recents:
Hefe Weissebier


Helles:


Pils:


Schwarzbier:

Give. Me. Those. !!!

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Really enjoyed the episode!  I've never had an Oz Sparkling, but it has definitely moved up a few spots on my to-brew list!

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 2017 NHC Competition Chat
« on: April 17, 2017, 07:52:58 PM »
I'm curious to see my scoresheets, particularly for the ones that didn't advance (well... most of them, I KNOW my Baltic Porter wasn't my best effort and I shouldn't have entered it).  Haven't received any score sheets yet (Philly).

Edit: spoke too soon. My scoresheets were waiting for me when I got home!

Man... I was all over the place this year.  2 in the 20s, 2 in the 30s, 1 40.

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