Messages

1

All Grain Brewing / Re: When to recirculate mash

« on: Today at 01:01:46 AM »

So, I have added a pump to my equipment and now have the capability to underlet mash, recirculate mash, and whirlpool while chilling. I do not have the capability to direct fire the mash to maintain heat (I use a blue Coleman Extreme) though a RIMS tube is a pre-planned Improvement. Until then — when I’ll constantly recirculate — I am wondering when to begin a recirculating vorlauf. I’ve read at the end of a 60 min mash for 30 min (90 min total) and I’ve read at 30 min into the mash for 30 min (60 min total). My goal is crystal clear wort into the kettle. What is the consensus?


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Definitely don’t think you need that much time. Use some sort of a circular recirc return (locline or the SS circle return) and run it for like 10-15 minutes at the end of the mash.

Constant recirc will be something you’ll learn to love when you get there.

2

All Grain Brewing / Re: NEIPA Water Profile

« on: April 20, 2018, 02:00:13 PM »

.44 grams MgSO4 should be undetectable flavor threshold. But I would agree that, in theory, all grain brewing doesn't need Mg, the grain ought to bring enough to the party. I used it in my Distilled Water brews for quite a while and recently decided it's just not needed. I feel the same about NaCl. Funny how we start out simple, then go complex, then winnow it back toward simple again.

Same here.  I'm currently of the opinion that the only thing I need to add to RO water is calcium (adding SO4 and Cl is just a side effect of this, which must be managed)  and Wyeast nutrient will cover any trace minerals that are really needed.

After reviewing my municipal source and realizing that I only brew in a narrow style range, I'm going back to using that with a bit of Gypsum and Table Salt to balance SO4 and Cl if need be.

3

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: no sparge method question

« on: April 20, 2018, 01:45:26 PM »

My total water for a no sparge batch is 8.5 gallons.  Should I use my usual 1.5 qt per pound ratio (4.5 gallons) for a 60 minute mash, mash out, then add the remaining 4 gallons and lauter.  Or should I add all the water at the start of the mash?

If I add all the water at the start of the mash how does that effect my salt additions?

 

As some have said, you want to determine:

a.) Your desired pH;
b.) Your desired mineral contributions;
c.) Plan your mash based off of that

Obviously a full volume mash at the outset means that the concentration of minerals will be different than if you restrict the volume initially and add water later, or if you do step infusions, etc.

pH can also be affected by step infusions.

4

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: no sparge method question

« on: April 18, 2018, 03:24:11 AM »

No-Sparge, in my view, means creating the recipe around a full volume mash. I prepare additions, adjust pH, etc. all based on the total volume and mash-in with that volume.

5

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: blending yeasts

« on: April 17, 2018, 10:37:01 PM »

Trappist yeast blends well:

3787/1762
3787/1214
1214/1762

6

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Top Beer Things to Do When In Portland For Homebrew Con

« on: April 16, 2018, 01:08:32 PM »

Watch out!

7

All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash

« on: April 16, 2018, 01:01:51 PM »

Erockrph talked about having done something like that fifty or so posts ago to get a well attenuated big beer.

That's who I got it from

Can't remember, though, if he was changing the pH to optimize the different enzymes in each mash.  That's an interesting idea.  He referenced, IIRC, an old thread I never found. I'm still toying with the idea of a Doppelbock, just to learn something.   Disincentive is, I'm not big into big beers. This could make for an interestingly different one.  And applying this to a normal gravity beer is definitely more food for thought.

This is an idea I’ve been hitting on with infusion step mashing. Essentially the infusions raise the pH, so if you were stepping, you could target the β optimum as the initial test pH and it would rise into α optimum by default.

I like the idea of 2 separate infusions better, because it allows for more control and consistency then the educated guesswork of adding infusions.

8

All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash

« on: April 16, 2018, 12:59:11 PM »

Reverse step mash, or recoction?

Double Mash as you would a big beer, but less volume. Then dilute to desired prevail volume and gravity

I say don’t change a thing except target preboil gravity. No dilution required. So do the same thing as you do for the big beers but with less grain. At least that’s how I’d want to do it for a Low Oxygen double mash. I’d pre-treat the water, infuse, cap, runoff, treat the first wort with more antioxidants, then re-infuse.

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All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash

« on: April 16, 2018, 12:49:36 PM »

Erockrph talked about having done something like that fifty or so posts ago to get a well attenuated big beer.

I'm not talking about just big beers though. This could be a good method for normal beers for people who have a desired to approximate step mashing without the unreliable infusion equations when cooler mashing. It's as easy as conducting a 30-45 minute single infusion at 162 and then an additional 30-45 minute single infusion at 17-149 ish.

Much more reliable then over or under shooting with boiling infusions.

If peoples antennae arent up over this, they should be. Very cool stuff.

10

All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash

« on: April 16, 2018, 12:56:30 AM »

It doesn't look like it'd be too bad for BIAB honestly. Did you do it on a 3 vessel or BIAB? How'd you calculate the second acid addition? Kettle size? I have a 10 gallon I brew 6 gallon batches on, so I might be able to get maybe 4.5 gallons if I try this. Wait, am I trying this?

Not BIAB but two vessel no sparge. 14 gallon kettles.

To calculate acid, use your total water and the total grain for total acid. Then calculate total water and 1st Mash grains only for 1st Mash acid. Second mash acid is total acid minus first mash acid. Mine was 3.5ml lactic total, and .5ml for first mash, leaving 3ml for second mash.

Can you elaborate a bit, now that you have a few of these double mashed under your belt, on the pH prediction method you are using? All the gory details if you have the time.

I use Brewer's Friend. So... I build my recipe, then calculate what salts and acid I need for the full grain bill. I start with all the water needed, there is no second adition of water. Then in the water calculator I cut the grain bill in half and recalculate what acid I need for the first mash. The amount I use for the second mash is total acid minus first mash acid.

I have checked two different batches with a pH meter at first and second mash and it hits the target.

As far as recipe design is concerned, you are inputting it as a full recipe and just splitting in two? So figure 50% of the gravity for the full batch from the first runoff?

Yup. For example my Barleywine was 30lbs Golden Promise and 10 gal water. I needed 8.7ml Lactic total. So 1st mash was 10 gal water, 15 lbs Golden Promise, and 3ml lactic. 45 min at 160F. Remove grain. Make temp adjust if needed. Add 5.7ml lactic and the other 15lbs Golden Promise  145F for 90 min.

Off to the boil

Could be cool even for regular gravity beers. You can do the α first/β second schedule and even use different pH because of the physically separate mashes.

11

All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash

« on: April 15, 2018, 04:44:37 PM »

It doesn't look like it'd be too bad for BIAB honestly. Did you do it on a 3 vessel or BIAB? How'd you calculate the second acid addition? Kettle size? I have a 10 gallon I brew 6 gallon batches on, so I might be able to get maybe 4.5 gallons if I try this. Wait, am I trying this?

Not BIAB but two vessel no sparge. 14 gallon kettles.

To calculate acid, use your total water and the total grain for total acid. Then calculate total water and 1st Mash grains only for 1st Mash acid. Second mash acid is total acid minus first mash acid. Mine was 3.5ml lactic total, and .5ml for first mash, leaving 3ml for second mash.

Can you elaborate a bit, now that you have a few of these double mashed under your belt, on the pH prediction method you are using? All the gory details if you have the time.

I use Brewer's Friend. So... I build my recipe, then calculate what salts and acid I need for the full grain bill. I start with all the water needed, there is no second adition of water. Then in the water calculator I cut the grain bill in half and recalculate what acid I need for the first mash. The amount I use for the second mash is total acid minus first mash acid.

I have checked two different batches with a pH meter at first and second mash and it hits the target.

As far as recipe design is concerned, you are inputting it as a full recipe and just splitting in two? So figure 50% of the gravity for the full batch from the first runoff?

12

All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash

« on: April 15, 2018, 12:57:00 AM »

It doesn't look like it'd be too bad for BIAB honestly. Did you do it on a 3 vessel or BIAB? How'd you calculate the second acid addition? Kettle size? I have a 10 gallon I brew 6 gallon batches on, so I might be able to get maybe 4.5 gallons if I try this. Wait, am I trying this?

Not BIAB but two vessel no sparge. 14 gallon kettles.

To calculate acid, use your total water and the total grain for total acid. Then calculate total water and 1st Mash grains only for 1st Mash acid. Second mash acid is total acid minus first mash acid. Mine was 3.5ml lactic total, and .5ml for first mash, leaving 3ml for second mash.

Can you elaborate a bit, now that you have a few of these double mashed under your belt, on the pH prediction method you are using? All the gory details if you have the time.

13

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Boxed beer' could be the new drinking trend

« on: April 13, 2018, 07:16:57 PM »

Seems like an interesting experiment to me. You guys don't like lambic-style beers I take it?

14

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Getting the mash to 170 degrees

« on: April 12, 2018, 06:07:56 PM »

Right. You need to account for heat loss in the mash and heat loss in the boiling infusion for it to be accurate.

I think Denny was pointing out that you also have to account for the heat capacity of your mash tun.

Right, which is obviously one of the thermodynamic "hand waves" that Palmer used to simplify the equations. I'm just saying mostly that the assumption that most people make is that the water is at 212 when they infuse. I can only speak for myself, but there is a lag from heat off to infusion for me and the water is usually around 207-208 by the time I infuse.

That obviously makes a bigger difference than the oft quoted drop in mash temp.

I'm open to suggestions and conversation about it though as i'm experimenting with a cooler again for step mashing.

15

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Getting the mash to 170 degrees

« on: April 12, 2018, 06:04:09 PM »

Right. You need to account for heat loss in the mash and heat loss in the boiling infusion for it to be accurate.

I think Denny was pointing out that you also have to account for the heat capacity of your mash tun.

Yep.  And that cooler is built to resist temp change

One thing I've been accounting for is the actual temp of the "boiling" water. The difference between 212 and 208 can make a huge difference.