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Messages - javierdu

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Beer Travel / brew pub with frementer on the door?
« on: December 29, 2010, 11:35:43 AM »
I saw a few days ago in Spanish Traveller magazine, a photo showing a hanging lie fermenter on the local door. I do not remember the name but some of this was "Ale. " I think also it was situated on a river
Does anyone knows what I mean local?, I thought it was very colorful and innovative his exterior view.

Yeast and Fermentation / starter with / without stir plate
« on: December 28, 2010, 10:22:00 AM »
I read a lot about the improve of using magnetic plate.

Jamil said that he wins by 40% compared to inttermitent shaking. But as the impact on growth rate or decrease in comparison to other methods, example: simple starter or  aireation continuous.

I can not find that information on the web. I read Wyest page but only said about to use stir plate or not use in his calculator (I think the other posibility is to use air pump or shaking, but I don´t know),


Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Predicting yeast cell counts
« on: December 14, 2010, 06:33:51 PM »
In my case it is variable, sometimes intermittent shaking, others stir plater and sometimes aeration with pump for a couple of hours (if the foam allows it) but  before I did not worry much

for this case I think that intermittent shaking is the most common here.


Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Predicting yeast cell counts
« on: December 14, 2010, 04:54:43 PM »
Hi, friends!
this post is old, but serves to resove maybe my question.
in Argentina only have liquid yeast in small packages (25 billion) and the life is not good, maybe have 2 months (50%). and is very expensive

I want to make a double IPA: 1075, 40 liters (10 gal) but  I ve only one pack

If I make calc I need about 544 billion of cell of yeast. But I remember, my count initial is 18.75 billion. (50%)

Without using a calculator, to explain to homebrewers here, I want to know how to get to predict the values (Palmer begins his book, page 69 on a count of 35 billion, but reviewing the amounts that is not according to the manufacturer and ignores% of viality).

Y saw a lot of book (Palmer, daniels and other, also yesta book) anybody say how is the calc, only Palmer (pag 69) say that if you ´ve a inicial lcount of 35 billion in a 1 liter of starter (1040OG  8ppm) at the end yoy have 95 billion ¿? Not considered due and that amount is incorrect

 I think that there's a method to estimate the calculation, but fails to reach that result by searching the web, Maybe the best is to reach 100 billion and then use tables as

is difficult and maybe my English is not good, but I hope helps or If the chart displayed is ok, I need help on how to use it, step by step


Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Predicting yeast cell counts
« on: December 14, 2010, 03:55:24 PM »
The mr. malty calc has a limit to the amount of growth that it will recommend with one starter, that happens to be 6 yeast packages worth.  So if it would take over 6 of your 20% viable packages to ferment the batch (6*20=120 billion cells), it jumps up to a new minimum.  This isn't particularly useful since most of us don't have two or more identical old yeast packages lying around. 

The other limit the mr. malty calc places is a minimum starter size of 1L.  This is the generally accepted minimum for significant new cell growth in a WL or Wyeast package. 

For old smack packs or a small amount of slurry, doing a mult-step starter is what you want.  It will ensure that you have a timely fermentation at each step to minimize the risk of other microbial infection, as well as reduce greatly the required amount of wort needed to get to your final cell count.  The wort usage is reduced with a multi-step starter because there is a starter pitching rate that results in the maximum amount of growth, above which the growth rate declines.  For example, if your starter pitch rate is 100 billion cells/L on a stir plate, there will be 130 billion new cells grown per liter of starter wort.  If your pitch rate is 12.5 billion cells/L, the new growth will be only 57 billion cells/L.  You can see a plot of the mr. malty stir plate tab, the x-axis is the starter pitching rate and the y-axis is the starter growth rate:

You should size each step to remain within the 100-12.5 billion cells/L pitching rate, to ensure timely fermentation and always have the minimum number of cells needed for adequate growth.  The closer you stay to the high side of that pitching rate, the more efficient your wort usage will be, at least with a stir plate.  You can use the formula on the chart in a spreadsheet to estimate the growth from each step size, and don't forget to add the starting cell count to get the total after each step.  So for example if you have 20 billion cells and pitch at 100 billion cells/L, that's a 200 mL starter * 130 billion new cells/L = 26 billion + 20 billion (starting count) = 46 billion after step one.  Keeping the same rate for step 2, 46 billion cells into a 460 mL starter * 130 billion new cells/L = 60 billion + 46 billion starting = 106 billion after step 2.  You'll have to play with the starter sizes to keep the minimum pitch rate and not grow too many cells for what you need.

An alternate method for doing the math above is to have the calculator do it for you.  Input your recipe parameters and yeast viability and adjust the volume down until it recommends only 1 yeast package in the starter (remember the smallest it will recommend is 1L, so this is not the most wort-efficient sized starter).  The 'cells needed' result is the final cell count in this starter.  Next input this number into the viability field and adjust the recipe volume again until you reach either the desired recipe volume or the next step size to keep to 1 yeast package in the starter.  You can repeat until your final recipe volume is reached.  As your viability exceeds 100%, you need to be cautious that your pitching rate does not exceed 100 billion cells/L (e.g. if the 'cells needed' in a previous step is 150 billion, make sure you make at least a 1.5L starter in the next step.  You may need to adjust the intermediate starter sizes to make sure this is the case).

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Question about multi step stater
« on: December 14, 2010, 03:16:34 PM »
can you explain how it can get 3 steps?

I think for the load you use mr malty
Step 1: 1022 / 10 gal / 25% = 158 billion / 4 pack / liter 1.1 req
Step 2: 1048 / 10 gal / 158% = 337 billion / 1 pack / 2 liter
Step 3: 1075 / 10 gal / 337% = 515 billion / 1 pack / 2 liters

I think I have something wrong because the third step does not give me 5 liters

Thank a lot

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Question about multi step stater
« on: December 13, 2010, 08:24:40 PM »
Thank you!

The simple reason is because I know from where the calculates (as unfortunately is not 1 +1 = 2).
I guess Wyest and Jamil are based on some previous calculations, which were wanted to know, Maybe, then Y¨ll pass to excel or graphics


Yeast and Fermentation / Question about multi step stater
« on: December 13, 2010, 05:19:31 PM »
starter question

I read a lot of information but have not found the answer that I need.
Most of the information on the web, both written and calculators, talking of making a starter from yeast 100 billion for pack, unfortunately in Argentina, we are not able to get large packages, our suppliers bring to Wyest Propagator (about of 25 billion cells of yeast).

The question is how the steps to reach the required amount of for example 515 billion in yeast cells (counter example: Ale / 1075 / 10 gal) with only one pack of Propagator?

There a mathematical mind to let me handle these variables without requiring web calculators?

Sorry for my bad English.


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