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Messages - erockrph

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I'm finally trying this for the first time and I totally get what Sam is doing here. I'm at the Sox game with the sun beating down on my shoulders, and this beer is exactly what Im looking for. Big hop aroma, just enough ibus without being firmly bitter, fresh malt flavor, and it goes down really easy. This is a lawnmower lager at it's finest. I've found my cookout beer for the summer

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2
Ingredients / Re: Gallotannin purple color?
« on: June 08, 2018, 06:34:04 PM »
Yep, I've never had the funny color, but the consensus seems to be it's iron or manganese that is being bound and held back in the mash by the BTB.  So better to have it there than going forward into the beer.  Paranoia is one of the worst ingredients in beer! :)
Since I started this topic I've started experimenting with various fountain pen inks. One of which is "iron gall" - made from a mixture of iron and gallotannin. While the color I saw in my kettlewas decidedly more purple than the ink I've used, from what I understand purple-black is a traditional color for this type of ink. The ink I've used is a deep blue that fades to blue-black over time (i.e., upon oxidation). The shade of color is similar to what I saw in my kettle, although the hue is a bit different. The chemistry of this ink is very likely similar to the chelation reactions happening in the kettle.

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Brut IPA
« on: May 30, 2018, 07:51:02 PM »
D45 makes for a passable substitute for light Crystal malt while having the fermentability of simple sugar. It doesn't necessarily push a beer into Belgian territory on it's own.

I did mean to say 1469 rather than 1214 in my original post. With a big pitch and a lot of oxygen you can end up with a dry beer and a relatively clean ester profile.

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Brut IPA
« on: May 26, 2018, 03:14:06 AM »
It's my understanding that the "original" IPAs,  after a year or more of ageing at extreme temperatures at the brewery, semi-intentional Brett inoculation in the shipping cask en route to the bottler abroad, and a year or so in the bottle, finally reached the consumer with a SG in the range of 0.090, brilliant clarity, considerable carbonation, virtually no malt character or bitterness -- just sort of sparkling water with some hop flavor and aroma,  a little funk, and quite a kick.  This interesting idea might give the most IPA-like IPA around (depending on what we mean by IPA anymore.)  I wouldn't brew one, but I'd sure like to try one.
Funny, when I was first reading the article I was thinking that the style reminded me of a Brett IPA, minus the Brett character.

I wonder if my 162/145 iterated mash schedule would get close enough without using exogenous enzymes.

And I can appreciate that the style may not seem like an IPA if you're going by the traditional IPA definition. I've started to accept that it has become common parlance to refer to any highly hopped beer as "____ IPA", even if the amount of hops used is the only thing it has in common with an IPA.

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General Homebrew Discussion / Brut IPA
« on: May 25, 2018, 06:55:56 PM »
I've been catching up on some of the blogs I keep tabs on, and I've come across a series of articles on Brut IPA over at Beer and Wine Journal (here's a link to the first post in the series). I have to admit A) I've never heard of this style before and B) I was intrigued. (That combo is rare when I typically read about a "new beer style")

Has anyone tried a commercial version of the style? Are they dry and bitter, or crisp and fruity? I'm certainly interested in trying my hand at something in this style, has anyone else brewed one?

Here's a stab at a recipe off the top of my head

80% Base malt
20% D-45 Candi Syrup

1.055 OG
~50 IBU at 60 min (from Hopshot, Magnum, etc.)
1 oz/gal flameout (Simcoe/Citra)
2 oz/ gal dry hop (Simcoe/Citra)

Big pitch of WY3787 or WY1214, second dose of O2 after ~12 hours, ferment low 60's

Carbonate to ~4 volumes

6
Beers in which I have enjoyed a certain amount of oxidation : gueuze, quadruple, Orval, barley wine.

Once brought home a large box of German beers bought in a beer shop in Bonn. Organized a beer tasting two months later. Result: all beers poured down the drain because of oxidation.

There's a difference...
Interesting. I appreciate the effects of aging on certain sours and Brett beers, but I chalk up the evolution of flavor over time in these to the ongoing activity of microbes such as Brett, which should be mitigating oxidation. I've had cardboardy gueuze before, and it was not pleasant at all.

7
I've had soy sauce Doppelbocks, unfortunately, and they are not good at all. I've had doppelbocks with some sherry notes, and I have generally enjoyed them - as sippers. And I've had fresh doppelbocks that are downright dangerous because they go down so easily.

I enjoy sherry notes in certain styles (barleywines, generally), but even in these styles oxidation can easily be overdone. Take, for example, Sam Adams' ill-fated Triple Bock from back in the day. Even after only a few months of aging it took on an overpowering soy sauce character that cannot be aged out (trust me, I had a bottle that I sat on for a good 15 years or so). I blame their choice of a cork stopper for this.

I guess my point is that while oxidation might not always be the enemy, the places where it may be desired are few and far between. And even then, you still need to have control over the situation. While my precious Thomas Hardy collection is still drinking well at almost 15 years old, I've had 25-year old samples that were undrinkable.

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All Grain Brewing / Re: Canning
« on: May 20, 2018, 06:01:58 PM »
It's the BPA in the can linings




(and before anyone goes nuts, that's a joke.  Well, sorta)

Given that this is an IPA, I actually was wondering about that (not the BPA specifically, though). Do hop oils adsorb to can liners, and would it happen to the extent where it would have a noticible impact on flavor? (I'm a canning noob, so I am asking this as much for my own insight as positing a possible mechanism for the OP's original question)

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The Pub / Re: Beer brewed with Great Lakes Water
« on: May 20, 2018, 03:56:37 PM »
This makes me wonder whether polyclar is remaining in my beer to any significant extent rather than fully dropping out.

Regarding these beers, this isn't so much about the breweries but the quality of the municipal water. I'd guess that Coke or Pepsi bottling facilities drawing off the same water supply would run into the same issues as well.

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Beer Recipes / Re: could I call it a Dunkelweizen?
« on: May 20, 2018, 02:59:11 PM »
I like a little more Munich in mine, but that certainly looks like a Dunkelweizen to me.

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Beer Recipes / Re: Fun beer
« on: May 20, 2018, 02:57:51 PM »
Black Champagne - a dark, highly carbonated beer that finishes dry and with a vinous character: all pilsner and refined sugar, a clean yet attenuative yeast (maybe a blend of 3711 and 1056 fermented cool?), Nelson Sauvin hops, and something to darken it (maybe Sinamar or blackprinz?).

I don't know if you even need 1056 for that one. 3711/Belle Saison leaves me with the impression of a dry white wine for most beers that I brew with it. For that reason, I use my table saison recipe as the base for all my fruit beers, and my Pink Beer as well (saison with hibiscus).

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All Grain Brewing / Re: Experiment tying some threads together
« on: May 15, 2018, 03:13:03 AM »
Interesting results. I may consider skipping my flameout addition of gallotannin and just go with my mash water addition to see if it improves my clarity issues.

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Beer Recipes / Re: NA beer
« on: May 07, 2018, 04:48:11 PM »
Thanks for all the input! I've heard that the heating method makes drastic changes in flavor. Is the concept with vacuum distillation that the vacuum gets the pressure down to the vapor pressure, and you can extract the alcohol that way?

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From what I understand, some heating is still required but you're in the right ballpark. Boiling points are decreased in a vacuum and allow boiling at a greatly reduced temperature.

Of course, along with ethanol you will see evaporation of aroma components as well. If anyone gives this a serious try, I'd suggest dry hopping after the evaporative step to reintroduce hop aromatics.

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Beer Recipes / Re: NA beer
« on: May 07, 2018, 03:46:54 PM »
Ferment a low OG recipe of your choice. After fermentation, return the batch to a near boil, as alcohol boils off at a temperature lower than water boils. Keg and force carbonate. Not sure how you can tell when all alcohol is gone. Perhaps watch the specific gravity, it should rise since alcohol is lighter than water.
This is a persistent myth (in cooking, brewing, distillation and so on) that has been addressed in several recent discussions on the forum.  You cannot boil off alcohol leaving the water.  The boiling point of the combined liquids will be intermediate between their individual boiling points, and they will evaporate together in proportion, simply leaving a reduced volume of both, in proportion, behind.

Here's a little help, thanks to yso191 for the link in one of his posts:

http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/ReadMeFirst/MagicBoilingMyth.html

I will put a bit of a finer point on this - you cannot boil off ALL of the alcohol. Given enough time (likely hours or even days for a full batch of standard-gravity beer), you could get it down to where the solution becomes azeotropic (where the boiling rates of the alcohol and water become equal), but no further. All the information I have seen has been for extraction of ethanol, which becomes azeotropic at 195 proof (97.5% alcohol). I'm not sure where that point occurs in the other direction (minimizing the quantity of alcohol in aqueous solution), but since vacuum distillation is a common method of producing NA beverages, I would assume that you can get under 0.5% ABV by boiling alone.

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Beer Recipes / Re: NA beer
« on: May 07, 2018, 12:39:15 PM »
Greetings satchman - I never really thought about making a NA beer, but I suppose you would use the exact same procedure as you would making an alcoholic brew, except the NA brew would not get fermented.  Then, I suppose you could use Coopers Carbonation Drops to bottle condition, or use the forced method.

I suppose the brew would be quite sweet, but I’m sure you could use some adjuncts to tone it down a bit.

Interesting thought.....
I would NOT bottle-condition a beer brewed like this, since the yeast would consume *all* the sugar once in bottles and blow them all up.

NA beer is something that is likely outside the realm of what is possible to a typical home brewer, since we have no good way to remove the alcohol produced by fermentation. I suppose you could brew a very low gravity beer and flash-pasteurize after a very short fermentation (1.013 OG to a 1.010 FG would be about 0.4% ABV - lower than the usual 0.5% ABV cutoff for NA beers), then force-carbonate. I don't know if that would taste any better than the commercial alternatives.

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