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Messages - lupulus

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General Homebrew Discussion / Dry hopping and perceived sweetness
« on: May 27, 2015, 08:54:04 AM »
Hi all,
Sorry to be perceived as beating as dead horse... I brew very dry IPAs and DIPAs. I have Pliny (Elder) clones finishing at 1.008 to 1.009, and I have always perceived a touch of sweetness that I do not perceive in other beers. Because Pliny calls for a Caramel malt (using Caraamber because it is what I get in Munich), I forced myself to keep my mouth shut about this sensation, thinking that this perceived sweetness should be from the Caraamber. And before, you say "oxidation", I bottle condition (or keg condition) IPAs and the only transfer I do, is before fermentation is completely done, so any oxygen during the transfer is theoretically absorbed by the yeast.
So, after a visit to Austin, Texas, I decided to clone Noble King, a dry hopped sour, bought a bottle, grew the culture, Fermented it for two weeks to 1.003, and dry hopped with 75g of Mittelfrüh and 75g of Mandarina Bavaria (whole hops) for a 21 liter volume. (I tasted the beer before dry-hopping and noted no sweetness at all.). Finished dry hopping and keg most of the beer with sugar at 5g/L and left it conditioning for 3 months at about 20 Celsius (68F). Chilled the keg two days ago, tapped today, and tasted the beer. It is very good, lemony sour, bretty aromas, dry hop spicy flavors, and SWEETNESS. The sweetness cannot be described as malty, it is very simple, like splenda/ stevia (no sugar coating). So, I checked for gravity to ensure the sugar added for carbonation was consumed, and the beer (degassed) was at 1.002. The important point to keep in mind, is that we are talking about a truckload of dry-hops, so please only comment if you have experience with the "truckload model". So, as Sherlock use to say, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Now your turn to shoot me down :-)

Dear homebrewers:
My first question/ post. I really look for this answer so please be forgiving if it is given somewhere else...
(I also sent this question to Kai but thought it may be interesting to see whether others asked themselves the same question)

I moved to Munich more than two years ago and as I brew mainly pale beers, I control the pH using acids, either lactic or citric, and a pH meter (sorry Reinheitsgebot).
The water profile in Munich is such that pre-boiling the water (before mashing) would lead to precipitation of most calcium (and magnesium?) and bicarbonate ions as calcium (and magnesium?) carbonate. Many brewers in Munich including many pros boil their water and then separate the water from the precipitate.
At the moment, I pre-boil water and separate it from the calcium carbonate precipitate. However, as I use the brew-in-a-bag method, to separate the calcium carbonate it would be more convenient for me to boil the water, have it cool down and have calcium carbonate precipitate, in the same kettle do the mashing then take the grains out boil the wort, cool it down (immersion chiller) and transfer all but the bottom residue to the fermenter. I reason that the calcium carbonate may continue to be in the bottom of the kettle throughout this process and is separated from the fermentable wort as calcium carbonate will stay with the trub in the bottom of the kettle.
In other words, my question is: Why german brewers separate the boiled water from the calcium carbonate precipitate, if you can leave the precipitate in the bottom (in brew in a bag) or leave it as a salt in a regular mash that eventually will settle as part of the trub after the normal boiling and cooling? Is it that the acidity of the mash and/ or boil will actually dissociate the calcium carbonate into ions and at least part of these ions will end up in the final beer, making it more "chalky" that it would be otherwise.

Thanks for reading and I would appreciate any comments  :)

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