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Messages - Richard

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1
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: WLP004
« on: February 19, 2019, 05:55:18 PM »
Looks like your guys are looking at the manufacturer's info that says it can go to 74%.  But that's the max they got in the lab with a wort made to be as fermentable as possible.   In the real world... different story.   I'd happily drink a pint of your beer.
I brewed a batch using this yeast a few weeks ago. I mashed at 154F, with 2 lbs of caramel malts (C120, Caramunich, Special B) in a 13 lb grain bill. I got 78% attenuation (1.057 to 1.012). It did that in 3 days. I have had some extremely vigorous and fast fermentations with WLP004.

The thermal contact between beer in a carboy (or keg) and air is pretty poor, and can allow for a significant temperature rise in the middle of the beer. Immersing the carboy in water does a much better job of transferring heat out of the beer. I have done this and measured a temperature difference from center of beer to water bath of less than 1 degree F, and that was with one of those crazy WLP004 fermentations. More typical is 0.5 F at the peak of fermentation-generating heat. Another way is to use a cooling coil inside the liquid. Anvil now makes one for carboys for $99.99:
https://www.anvilbrewing.com/product-p/anv-cs-carb.htm

I haven't used this, but am considering purchasing their coil alone ($20) and using it with my home-built cooling system.

2
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Stale beer direct from brewery
« on: February 13, 2019, 05:41:17 PM »
Thanks to Robert and Big Monk for explaining this. I assumed that this was just a large can of beer, packaged the way cans are usually done for distribution.

I wasn't there to see this crowler being filled, but after this discussion I asked my son about it. He said it was filled from a tap, then capped on foam. No information about whether there was any CO2 purging, but there was clearly significant oxygen contact. Even though the crowler was kept cool (but not totally refrigerated) it only took a couple of days to go bad.

3
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Stale beer direct from brewery
« on: February 13, 2019, 04:03:37 PM »
Plus it's warm in California.

It's not warm here right now. We have snow on the hills and he drove through heavy hail to get the crowler home. Still, I see your point.

4
Commercial Beer Reviews / Stale beer direct from brewery
« on: February 13, 2019, 05:44:04 AM »
My son just came back from a short trip to northern California. He found a new small brewery/brew pub in the town he visited and brought me back a crowler (a large can) of their Centennial IPA. I eagerly opened it and immediately tasted the sicky sweet, sherry-like taste of oxided/stale beer. My son tasted it and agreed that it was bad and didn't taste like what he had on tap there. This was purchased at the brewery and delivered to me only a day or two later. What a disappointment! They are obviously not doing a good job of packaging and storing their beer. I don't want to name the brewery, but I am wondering if I should contact them and let them know how bad it was.

5
All Grain Brewing / Re: First all grain brew
« on: February 13, 2019, 02:36:01 AM »
Not sure what you mean by larger kettle. I purchased this 10-gallon one on sale for $49.99 (now $69.99):

https://www.homebrewing.org/10-Gallon-2-Weld-Volume-Marked-Brew-Pot_p_6827.html

They sell larger and better ones for more money, but still quite reasonable. I put a ball valve on it, and I highly recommend that you do so (and get one that can be easily taken apart for cleaning). I purchased this valve for $12: https://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=128 and added a nipple and hose barb for about $5 each ( https://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=nipple&category_id=0&product_id=121 https://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=barb&category_id=0&product_id=61) . Total cost under $100 and it has the welded ports for valve and thermometer. Very happy.

6
I agree that the increased solubility of CO2 will add to the suckback effect, but I have no idea how to calculate that.

In terms of when to attach a balloon, fermentation of 20 liters of 1.060 beer with 75% attenuation produces about 450 liters of CO2, so collecting 0.5 - 1 liter would mean just catching a tiny percentage at the very tail end of fermentation.

7
But in a fixed container, your volume remains constant.  If you are talking the gas only, the density of the gas will increase, but its volume will remain at the 2 gallons of head space that you started with.

In a carboy open to the atmosphere the pressure remains constant. As the CO2 gas in the headspace cools it shrinks, and air is drawn in to keep the headspace volume filled at atmospheric pressure. The volume of air drawn in is equal to the volume shrinkage of the CO2 at constant pressure, about 500 ml.

8
Beer Recipes / Re: Error in Sierra Nevada Resilience IPA recipe
« on: February 09, 2019, 02:37:36 AM »
I get the digital edition. It once was a replica of the printed version, and had the information you refer to on pages 3 and 4. I remember seeing it once. Now the digital edition is just a set of articles, and all the non-article information is missing. There are no pages, and I can't access their information on standardizing recipes.

9
Beer Recipes / Re: Error in Sierra Nevada Resilience IPA recipe
« on: February 08, 2019, 05:50:02 PM »
I agree that you need to tweak recipes to your own setup, but both of these claimed to come from the same source. At the bottom of both is the identical wording: "This recipe was provided by Sierra Nevada Brewing Company and scaled down from the original by Chip Walton of Chop and Brew."

Given that, I would expect them to be the same.

10
Beer Recipes / Error in Sierra Nevada Resilience IPA recipe
« on: February 08, 2019, 04:08:54 PM »
In November, the AHA website had a recipe for Sierra Nevada Resileince Butte County Proud IPA: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/sierra-nevada-resilience-ipa/

The recipe calls for 11 lbs of base malt and 1.25 lbs of crystal 60L to yield an OG of 1.065 for a 5 gallon batch. As I was planning my brew I realized that this would require a mash efficiency of something like 90%, which is way higher than I get. I decided to increase the amount of base malt to 12.5 lbs, which would give me the correct gravity while still keeping close to the ratio of 90%/10% for the base/C60 blend.

Yesterday I saw a recipe for Resilience on the Brew Your Own magazine web site:
https://byo.com/recipe/sierra-nevada-resilience-butte-county-proud-ipa-clone/

I looked at it and found, much to my satisfaction, that it calls for 12.5 lbs of base malt and 1.25 lbs of C60, which is exactly what I used. 

So far I have had the Sierra Nevada version and a cask ale version from a local brewery. I look forward to tasting my brew in another week or so.

11
Let me say first that I am not a chemist. When Robert posted something about surfactants I thought he was talking about a Beach Boys movie.  ;)

I estimate that my 2 gallon (7.5 liter) headspace will shrink by 7% when cooled from 70 F (294 K) to 34 F (274 K). That is a volume of about 16 oz (500 ml), not a trivial amount. That air will mix in the headspace, exposing the beer to a 7% air mixture for days. Of course the exposure will be at a low temperature, so the chemical reactions will all be slower. There are other phases of the packaging process where the beer can be exposed to pure air but only for a few seconds or minutes. Which is worse: exposure to 7% air at 34F for days or exposure to 100% air at room temperature for seconds or minutes? I don't know, but my gut tells me that the longer exposure would more than compensate for the reduced temperature and concentration.

Using a rubber balloon should work, provided you put it on at the right time. Too early and it would overfill and explode or blow off. Too late and it would not collect enough CO2 and would collapse during the cold crash. Now I know that if that happens, though, I can just jiggle the carboy to release enough CO2 to partially inflate the balloon again. I will try that experiment on my next batch.

Your math is also way off.  As water (which is the majority of what beer is) cools from 20 degrees Celsius (70 degrees F) to 4 degrees Celsius (39 degrees F) it shrinks about .00021 ml per degree Celsius.  So the total shrinkage for 7.5 literrs will be about .0252 L or roughly .8 ounces.  No where near the full pint of liquid in your calculations.  Now as the water (or beer) is further cooled from 4 degrees C (39 degrees F) to 1 degree C (34 degrees F) it actually expands due to the unique properties of water that allows ice, a solid, to be less dense and float on top of water.
The gas contracts too.  Not sure about the total volume involved, but I know from experience that crashing a closed fermenter from ~68°F to ~33°F results in a pressure drop of between 2-3 psig.   Which on a glass or plastic vessel could be quite dangerous.
The volume calculation was based on the gas shrinkage alone, not the liquid, which I agree is negligible. I used the ideal gas law, PV=NRT, with P, N and R constant. That gives V1/T1 = V2/T2.

12
Buy a Speidel. You can seal it and plastic will absorb the pressure change.
Beer will oxidize significantly if left exposed to air,  but it is up to each brewer to decide how important this is.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Or ferment in a corny

Neither of these comments is very helpful. It is like if I asked advice about procedures for changing the oil in my car and you told me to buy a Tesla.

13
Let me say first that I am not a chemist. When Robert posted something about surfactants I thought he was talking about a Beach Boys movie.  ;)

I estimate that my 2 gallon (7.5 liter) headspace will shrink by 7% when cooled from 70 F (294 K) to 34 F (274 K). That is a volume of about 16 oz (500 ml), not a trivial amount. That air will mix in the headspace, exposing the beer to a 7% air mixture for days. Of course the exposure will be at a low temperature, so the chemical reactions will all be slower. There are other phases of the packaging process where the beer can be exposed to pure air but only for a few seconds or minutes. Which is worse: exposure to 7% air at 34F for days or exposure to 100% air at room temperature for seconds or minutes? I don't know, but my gut tells me that the longer exposure would more than compensate for the reduced temperature and concentration.

Using a rubber balloon should work, provided you put it on at the right time. Too early and it would overfill and explode or blow off. Too late and it would not collect enough CO2 and would collapse during the cold crash. Now I know that if that happens, though, I can just jiggle the carboy to release enough CO2 to partially inflate the balloon again. I will try that experiment on my next batch.

14
Today I was moving a carboy that had been cooled to 34 F for several days, and as I moved it a bit there was gas bubbling out of the airlock. I have noticed on many occasions that fully-fermented but non-carbonated beer has quite a bit of CO2 in solution which will come out if there is a bit of agitation. Usually the concern during cold crashing is that oxygen will be sucked in, and there are various schemes to avoid this.  I wonder if a little bit of jiggling now and then would cause enough CO2 to come out of solution too keep the pressure positive and avoid any suckback. With an S-shaped airlock it is easy to see which side has the higher pressure. This would be a free and easy solution, and it could possibly even be automated. Am I missing something?

15
Beer Recipes / Re: New Holland Dragon’s Milk Recipe Typo???
« on: February 05, 2019, 03:39:37 PM »
From the context I think it is 4-7 days. The first part of the recipe says to start the fermentation, and while  you are waiting 10-14 days for it to finish to prepare the oak chips. If it took 47 days (an unusually precise number for a period that long), the recipe should have told you to prepare the oak chips long in advance of brewing the beer.

I used this technique to get some strong oak flavor into a stout last fall, and it worked great. My previous attempts had a lot of bourbon flavor but not much oak, and this gave me what I wanted.

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