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Messages - Kaiser

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1741
All Grain Brewing / Re: Help with a Roggenbier water profile
« on: November 19, 2009, 11:01:50 AM »
I'm brewing a Roggenbier next week and I'm not really where to start for a water profile.  Should model it after a wheat beer?

Yes, I'd use the same profile you would use for a wheat beer. Munich water might be too alkaline unless you plan to use dark malts.

Kai

1742
I was thinking something like this:
1) mash x amount of carapils and mash y amount of pale separately
2) mash x amount of carapils + y amount of pale together.
3) combine the runnings of 1 & compare to the runnings of 2.

Or is that the same thing but more complicated?

No, that is actually better than my initial approach. I'm always interested in eliminating as many factors as possible and to have a good control. One problem is, that I cannot be sure that I will get 100% conversion efficiency from the pale malt. I.e. not all the starches may convert and if that happens the pH, which will be different since even cara pils brings down the pH a little, can affect the level of conversion. With the modified approach I don't have to worry about that since I'm going to use onlt the enzymes extracted from malt. The control will have the enzymes disabled by boiling.

Kai

1743
The Pub / Re: It will take some time...
« on: November 19, 2009, 09:24:53 AM »
It also takes a while until Google starts putting hits in this forum on page 1.

Kai

1744
I don't believe (I don't know, have never tested) that all the starch in crystal malts has been converted.  It is in this starch conversion that I believe that base malt (with enzymes) will assist.

Fred, if that is truly the case we would have to advise against simple steeping of specialty grains since that could cause the release of starches into the wort. But so far I have not heard of excessive starch haze in extract + steeped grain beers. This is also easily tested with an iodine test.

Up to this point I always believed that no enzymes are necessary for proper extraction from crystal malts which is why can steep them. But I was always wondering if it is truly the case that crystal malt’s sugars are not affected by enzymes. I.e. can active b-amylase make some of the extract from crystal malt more fermentable during the mashing process?

That makes sense to me, and I've always sort of assumed the answer is yes.

I've been wondering about the actual extraction question for a while though. It would come down to whether or not all the starches in the endosperm are converted during malting, right?

Unless I'm mistaken, Kai's talking about testing extraction potential, not fermentability. For the moment, anyway.  ;)

I changed my mind. I think it would be a more useful experiment if I were to test fermentability as well. I have done these experiments before with bread yeast and they are not that difficult to conduct.

Kai

1745
This may be a silly question, but how would gravity measurements let you know whether a sugar is more or less fermentable? I'd imagine that this could only be determined after fermentation with equal pitch rates and yeast strain based on the terminal gravity.

yes, that is correct. Threw in the statement about fermentability b/c it was just another though I had on the subject itself. Fermenting the produced wort in a fast ferment test setting might be able to show that. But to do that I rather do an experiment where I extract only the enzymes (cold water steep) and add them to a mash of only crystal malt. The control would be the addition of a boiled enzyme extract. The latter would compensate for the fact that even a cold water steep extracts extracts some sugar from malt.

Now that I think about it, that might be an experiment that is much better controlled than working with different grists that may cause different mash pH conditions. After fermenting the resulting wort, It would also be able to tell us if enzymes have an effect on the fermentability of crystal malt.

Kai

1746
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Octoberfest beers
« on: November 19, 2009, 08:01:52 AM »
kai - perhaps from filtering?

Possible. Or treatment with PVPP, which precipitates tannins. I hate to have to go to filtering to replicate that level of smoothness in the bitterness.

Unfortunately I didn’t have any Oktoberfest beers while I was in Germany last week. The season was over and when I was in Munich I couldn’t buy any since I wasn’t allowed to bring them on the plane. I was curious to what extend fresh examples exhibit the malt aroma/taste that we know from a good Doppelbock. In my experience this is the result of aging and I was pleasantly surprised that a Dunkel, that I had at Paulaner, had only little of that character and tasted remarkably close to my attempts at that style. When I had this beer previously it had more of that dark fruit velvety malty taste of a Doppelbock and I was wondering how they get that w/o aging the beer for a long time. It must have been an older bottle or keg. I currently have a Maerzen on tap that is full of that aroma/taste but it has also been brewed in March.

Kai

1747
While reading through Bamforth and Lewis’ “Essays in Brewing Science” I came across this interesting statement on page 87:

“crystal malts require pale malt for adequate extraction”

Up to this point I always believed that no enzymes are necessary for proper extraction from crystal malts which is why can steep them. But I was always wondering if it is truly the case that crystal malt’s sugars are not affected by enzymes. I.e. can active b-amylase make some of the extract from crystal malt more fermentable during the mashing process? That problem however is not necessarily what they mean with the above statement.

I’m thinking of an experiment that could demonstrate if Bamforth and Lewis’ statement is true: 3 mashes with the same mash thickness but different grists (100% carapils, 50/50 carapils/pale malt, 100% pale malt) mashed for 1 hour at the same temperature. Ideally the mash pH should be the same and may need some control since these 3 grists are expected to have different distilled water mash pH values. Level of extraction is then assessed by testing the gravity of the mash liquid. That is then put in relation to the potential of the respective grist and if the 50/50 grist is truly doing better than the 100% carapils grist there might be something to this.

Not that this has far reaching implications in brewing, it would just be good to know to satisfy the inner geek.

Kai


1748
The Pub / Re: It will take some time...
« on: November 19, 2009, 07:25:28 AM »
What we need are users who have questions. Many of the folks I see on here are very knowledgeable but not necessarily asking the questions that lead to the informative threads we had on other forums. And you are right, that will take time.

Kai

1749
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: German Ale Yeast 1007
« on: November 18, 2009, 12:19:39 PM »
I'm picking up a good bit of sulfur one week into fermentation.

Don't worry about sulfur during primary fermentation. I'd only worry about it if it sticks around after primary fermentation. I use this yeast as well, but I don't remember if it threw off sulfur or not.

Kai

1750
Equipment and Software / Re: Condensation in Chest Freezer
« on: November 18, 2009, 11:04:50 AM »
BTW, Calcium Chloride is very hygroscopic too. So you may just place a pan with CaCl2 in the freezer if you already have enough CaCl2 on hand. That is also the reason why brewing salts should be kept in sealed containers. Some of them attract water from the air which will dilute their strength and you end up adding less than you think.

Kai

1751
Equipment and Software / Re: Condensation in Chest Freezer
« on: November 18, 2009, 11:00:39 AM »
What procedure do you use to bake the crystals?  Temp, time, spread them out on a sheet?

I haven't done that yet. I figure I just place them on tin foil set in a pot or baking sheet and bake them at 300-400F for a while. When they absorb water they get all gooy and translucent. Once they look white again they should be recharged. The crystals are just a very hygoscopic salt that attracts water from the atmosphere. That water can be driven off with heat. They also sell refill packs.

If you don't open the chest freezer/fridge much, one charge should last for a while.

Kai

1752
Equipment and Software / Re: Condensation in Chest Freezer
« on: November 18, 2009, 10:37:55 AM »
I use DampRid: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UGTLWC

You can "recharge" the crystyals by baking out the water in the oven.

Kai

1753
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Keg, bottle or both?
« on: November 18, 2009, 09:57:44 AM »
A little off-topic, but I'd really like to perfect a way to bottle from the keg so I can start entering competitions.

Here is what I do:

- put the beer in a corny keg with a shortened dip-tube and let it carbonate in there (natural or artificial)
- move the keg into a cold fridge (32F is good) and let it cold condition in there, You may even add finings to accelerate the clearing process
- Sanitze a few bottles. I do this by adding a squirt of water, cap with tin foil and bake them in the over at 250F for ~2 hrs.
- Once the bottles are cooled place them with the beer in the fridge/freezer. Make sure the bottles don’t freeze. This will create ice crystals that cause gushing during filling.
- Sanitize a picnic tap and a short piece of a racking cane. Put the tube into the picnic tap to make a “beer gun”
- W/o moving it connect the keg to CO2 and release the pressure until you have only 2-3 psi in there. Set the regulator to the same pressure.
- get a large sanitary mug into which you can rest the “beer gun” and catch any foam flowing from the bottles.
- place bottle caps into sanitizer
- now take a bottle, remove tin foil and fill the bottles. If it foams too much, reduce the pressure.
- let foam drip into the mug
- cap on foam to eliminate head space O2. If the beer doesn’t foam enough squirt some more beer into it or tap the side of the bottle.
- keep filling as many bottles as you need.

I bottle from a lagering chest and have a large black pan like this one (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=19252-000001569-ST3608&lpage=none) set such that I can keep the bottles and all the mess in it.

Once I’m done I wipe off the bottles and label the caps.

Kai

1754
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Keg, bottle or both?
« on: November 18, 2009, 09:40:45 AM »
I do both.

When cold conditioning is completed and the beer is carbonated I bottle about 6-12 bottles from the cold keg into cold and sanitized bottles using a picnic tap with a short tube attached. The cold keeps the CO2 from gushing out and I can bottle clear carbonated beer. These bottles are then for sharing, evaluating and sampling. The rest gets transferred to a serving keg. Evaluating beer from bottles eliminates possibly inconsistent carbonation from serving and any possible infection or taste change that may happen during serving. Something I seek to eliminate as well, but it is nice that I can cut this out of the loop.

For beers that I plan to age (Doppelbocks for example) I bottle the whole keg into about 2 cases the same way.

Kai

1755
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Octoberfest beers
« on: November 18, 2009, 09:29:22 AM »
One thing that I also noticed with many German beers is the quality of the bitterness. Especially beers brewed by large commercial breweries tend to have a very clean bitterness that even at higher levels does not taste harsh. It may linger but doesn’t stick around for long. The hop taste, if present, never feels “raw” or harsh either. I don’t exactly know how they get that since I had beers from smaller breweries (pub or museum breweries) that show a less refined quality of the bitterness while they would be using a similar procedure and similar ingredients.

How about the use of crystal and carmel malts. I know that many American beers have a distinctive crystal note in their aroma that is missing from most German examples of that style. SA Oktoberfest, for example is a good and tasty beer but I would not use it as a reference for judging Oktoberfest style beers.

Kai

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