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Messages - narcout

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I think it's hard to draw any conclusions from that particular article since it didn't involve making starters, and the yeast being constantly agitated was stored in water not wort.

Assuming any of the same results would be observed in the context of starters, I guess it would be a trade off between mechanical breakage and potentially higher levels of sterols in the viable cells.

Yeah, I did find it interesting though.

After listening to the first half of the podcast, I read the DMS article on the Scott Janish site and then the article cited under the Yeast Storage/Health section: Yeast Handling Studies. I. Agitation of Stored Pitching Yeast.

The study involved yeast which was collected from a production fermenter and then stored (for 5 days at 1 degree Celsius) under beer with no agitation, under water with 2 hours of agitation per day, or under water with constant stirring via a Corning magnetic stirrer.  It did not involve making starters.

The yeast stored under water with constant agitation decreased in viability by 25% and in glycogen by 85%.  The yeast stored still under beer or under water with 2 hours of agitation per day decreased in viability by 8% and in glycogen content by 12%.

The authors suggested that the oxygen provided to the yeast by stirring accelerated the metabolic processes of the cells which required expenditure of stored cellular glycogen.  They then noted that had this occurred in wort the glycogen could have been used by the cells to form sterols, possibly in “a concentration sufficient to negate the need for wort oxygenation and to shorten the initial lag phase after pitching” (assuming all the glycogen dissimilated during storage was so used).  However, since the yeast was stored in water under nutrient-deficient conditions, this did not occur.  Once the stored glycogen was depleted, the cells died.

Further, they stated that additional cell losses may have been caused by oxygen toxicity. 

Interestingly, they also estimated that 15% of the of the original cells were lost through mechanical breakage caused by stirring, and this may have resulted in an increase of respiratory deficient mutants (from 1% to 15% of the population) which are believed to be better protected from mechanical breakage due to their smaller size.

I was able to get my entry brewed last weekend.  I don't think I've ever used crystal malt in a saison before, should be interesting. 

The Pub / Re: Maui - Hawaii Sea Spirits
« on: August 17, 2016, 12:37:26 PM »
Did you come across the Sammy Hagar Red Head Macadamia Nut Rum on Maui?

I didn't, but it sounds interesting. Maybe next time...

Very cool! For the rim, do they ferment the unprocessed cane juice, Cachaça-style?

My understanding was that they ferment the unprocessed juice for both the rum and the vodka.  I think they said the only difference was in the distillation. 

Ingredients / Re: Hop Hash for bittering?
« on: August 16, 2016, 03:35:55 PM »
Has anyone tried vaping it?  It is said it gives you an idea how they will taste in beer.  That is actually pretty cool if it works.

The Lagunitas guys were doing it at their NHC booth.  It smelled amazing and was very relaxing.

The Pub / Re: Maui - Hawaii Sea Spirits
« on: August 12, 2016, 10:04:44 AM »
I assume you got to sample the product?

I did.  The vodka is pretty good, and in my opinion better than the rum (which is strange considering that vodka usually isn't made from sugar cane and rum is).

I definitely didn't see any warnings in my research prior to buying everything.  I am sure my choice of sanitizer contributed, but this seems like something a shop that deals with homebrewers should warn about if it's such a problem.  I don't want to be a jerk though, especially if I'm wrong. Is this my fault?

When I was first putting together my kegerator I read some posts on the NB forum about how beer, with its low pH, would eventually eat through chrome plating, so I bought stainless faucets and elbow shanks from the start. 

I don't recall ever hearing anything about Star San ruining chrome as quickly as you describe though. 

I think it would be reasonable for a shop to warn people (at least about beer degrading chrome plating over time), but none of the major on-line retailers seem to.  Maybe it's an issue that not a lot of people are aware of?  It doesn't seem to be discussed very often.

The Pub / Maui - Hawaii Sea Spirits
« on: August 08, 2016, 03:30:06 PM »
I recently returned from a trip to Maui where I had a chance to visit the Hawaii Sea Spirits distillery.  I thought some of you might be interested in seeing a few pictures.

This is the sugar cane press.  They grow their own organic sugar cane (both the vodka and rum are made from it) and import cane juice from somewhere else (I think South America).

These are the fermentors.  They ferment the cane juice to 10% ABV before distilling.  That's the bottom of the column still poking through the roof.

The pot still is on the left; that's the blending tank on the right where they add water back to the distillate.  All the water they use is desalinized deep ocean water which is pulled up off the coast of the Big Island.  Apparently, this water is marketed in Japan as a health drink and sells for something like $20 a bottle (not by the distillery).

Column still

Sugar cane; they grow a couple of different varieties

Sugar cane field with still in the background; it's a beautiful property

Bottling line

This picture is from somewhere else on the island, but I thought it was worth sharing.  These are old mill rollers from the sugar cane processing plant.  The grooved part of the roller is six or seven feet long.  Apparently, 2016 is the last year of commercial sugar cane production on Maui.


Sounds fun, I registered an entry, though it's going to be kind of a rush to get it done in time.

Other Fermentables / Re: sour cider
« on: July 17, 2016, 10:02:13 AM »
I sampled the brett cider this morning.  It has a moderate sourness, and a good amount of barn yard in both the flavor and aroma. 

Gravity is now 1.001, which puts it at 7.5% ABV.

I think it's ready for bottling. 

Kegging and Bottling / Re: No Beer
« on: July 15, 2016, 01:01:50 PM »
the gas and liquid connections are right

Are you positive?  It can sometimes take a bit of pressure to get the disconnects to fully seat down onto the posts.  It can help to pull the ring up on the disconnect as you are pushing it down onto the post.

Beer Recipes / Re: Red X Saison
« on: July 15, 2016, 09:51:35 AM »
I've brewed two beers with Red X: a lager that was 100% Red X and a Belgian Red that was Red X and cane sugar.

I only have two examples to draw from, but my experience is that (i) it is more acidic than what its color would suggest, (ii) beers finish around 1.012 - 1.014, even if mashed low and fermented with an attenuative yeast, and (iii) it has a tart character (to me it tastes like cherry), which will smooth out over time.

The Belgian Red has been on tap for 2 months, and it has turned into a nice beer.

That said, I don't think I will use it as the sole malt again.

Ingredients / Re: Citric Acid
« on: July 11, 2016, 04:01:43 PM »
When I brewed last week, I hit 5.2 in my mash.  Then I added my normal sulfate and chloride additions to the kettle along with 1/2 teaspoon of Citric acid for 5 gallons to the boil.

Something interesting I learned from Principles of Brewing Science is that calcium ions "continue to interact with malt phosphate during wort boiling, and the ongoing reaction between calcium and phosphate is the primary reason that the pH decreases in the kettle boil."

Equipment and Software / Re: Brewing with a pump
« on: July 11, 2016, 02:59:57 PM »
Loving that submersible pump for the ice water loop!

I'm glad you posted this because I think with some additional fittings I can use the Chugger pump for this purpose (recirculating ice water through the chiller).

I had a submersible pump at one point, but it died on me pretty fast and I never ended up replacing it.

However, once you have grasped all the new tasks and responsibilities that you need to attend to, you shouldn't be that disappointed.

Yeah, you're probably right.  After the pump though, I don't think I can handle any more new brewing related tasks or responsibilities.  Sometimes, it really does start to feel like a chore.   

Equipment and Software / Re: New Mill Rollers
« on: July 11, 2016, 02:46:52 PM »
Regardless of how anyone chooses to procure them, it's clear to me that new rollers are the solution.  Enjoy.

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