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Messages - kramerog

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601
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Flow Control Faucet without line
« on: October 05, 2015, 06:43:46 PM »
Your specific tap appears to have flow control but your German is probably much, much better than mine.

602
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Flow Control Faucet without line
« on: October 05, 2015, 05:43:36 PM »
Folks generally shoot for a carbonation that corresponds to 10-15 psig (0.66 - 2 x 10^5 kPa gauge) of C02.  To use a tap without flow control like the one you linked to, you would have dispense pressure of 2-3 psig. If you left the beer at 2-3 psig, the beer would eventually go flat.   

603
Beer Recipes / Re: Irish Dry Stout - Final recipe?
« on: October 05, 2015, 05:35:43 PM »
I hear the attenuation of the Irish Ale yeast is low for dry stouts, which would be exacerbated by the use of Maris Otter as your only base malt.  I would mash at a low temp and possibly sub out some MO for 2 row.

If mash pH is OK then roasted barley can be in mash.  You may want to shoot for a higher mash pH than normal, say 5.6.

604
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Flow Control Faucet without line
« on: October 05, 2015, 02:50:55 PM »
I can't comment on whether the tap would work if you dispense at carbonation pressure. Similar taps without flow control work just fine at low pressure.

605
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: New starter procedure trial
« on: October 01, 2015, 03:03:16 PM »
I would say to all of you who are posting theories about why it will or won't work, TRY IT for yourself and post your results.  That's the way citizen science works.  We need more than just a few data points.  And a big thanks to Mark (and Marshall and all the other experimenters) who make us all think and re-evaluate what we think we know.

Understanding why something works or doesn't work is science too and can allow knowledge to be applied to other ways of making starters.  In particular, the biggest issue for me with this method is that I like having my starter finished before I brew; pitching at high krausen adds another complication to the brew day.  The knowledge I gain here can help me make better starters the way I like to make them.

Having said that I may try this method the next time I do a split batch and post the results here.


606
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Switch fermentation temp?
« on: October 01, 2015, 02:42:39 PM »
I don't see a benefit to moving the beer and see a possible downside if the yeast aren't finished cleaning up after themselves , e.g., reabsorbing diacetyl.  Having said that, I don't have much experience with S-04.

607
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: New starter procedure trial
« on: September 29, 2015, 03:03:05 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts.  I've always been skeptical of the 40 second swirling thing so while I do it I also aerate while racking.

608
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: New starter procedure trial
« on: September 29, 2015, 02:25:55 AM »
Foam only when shaking, not during the "regular" fermentation, which I assume is what you mean by "incubation".  And it's not nearly as much foam as what I see in your picture.

Turning the medium into mostly foam is the key to this method. If you are not producing at least as much foam as can be seen in the photo above, then you are not shaking vigorously and/or long enough.  I literally screw the cap down tight, and shake the vessel vertically as vigorously as I can for one minute.  A lot of people attempt the method with a solid rubber stopper, but a screw on cap is really not an option with the method.  One literally has to shake the starter like one is attempting to collect money from it for the mafia.  One of the British brewers that I know from another forum wins the prize for shaking.  He managed to turn media almost completely into foam.  That feat requires a massive amount of shaking.

I've been ruminating about this technique and here are my ruminations.  Turning the wort into mostly foam isn't necessary to achieve 99% of saturation based on what I have read elsewhere.  Specifically, swirling a carboy for 40 seconds is enough to saturate wort with oxygen according to various reports and that produces very little foam.  So what does turning the wort into foam do?  I think if you don't pitch yeast first then the answer is basically nothing; the wort is fully aerated but you could have gotten the same result without a workout. 

So let's assume that pitching the yeast into the starter wort and then shaking the starter is key.  If nothing happens while the yeast is contained in the foam then all you got yourself is some shear-stressed yeast,  wort at saturation and a sweaty brewer.  So now you've wasted your energy and damaged your yeast.

So let's assume that something happens while the yeast is suspended in the foam.  Is it possible that the yeast can work fast enough to deplete the dissolved oxygen in the starter  and that oxygen in the bubbles transfers into the wort and into the yeast before the foam entirely collapses but that this oxygen transfer is minimal without foam?  In other words, shaken not stirred has the benefit of making a starter with pure oxygen, without the technology and cost?

What are your thoughts on why the vigorous shaking is key?

609
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: New starter procedure trial
« on: September 28, 2015, 03:56:08 PM »

With the above said, I shared this method with the community because I felt that there was a need for a low-cost, low-tech, shear stress-free method for producing a healthy starter.  I hope that people do not attempt to generalize the method in the way that many specific methods have been generalized by the community.  It usually works without fail if all of the conditions are met.
It is counter-intuitive to me that shaking the heck out of a starter is "shear stress-free."  What am I missing?
The shaking is done prior to the pitching of the yeast vial or smack pack to the starter.

That makes sense but the instructions appear to say that the starter is inoculated first and then shaken.

610
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: New starter procedure trial
« on: September 28, 2015, 03:30:07 PM »

With the above said, I shared this method with the community because I felt that there was a need for a low-cost, low-tech, shear stress-free method for producing a healthy starter.  I hope that people do not attempt to generalize the method in the way that many specific methods have been generalized by the community.  It usually works without fail if all of the conditions are met.
It is counter-intuitive to me that shaking the heck out of a starter is "shear stress-free."  What am I missing?

611
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« on: September 28, 2015, 03:16:53 PM »
He is talking about Mark V's "shake it like it owes you money and pitch at high krausen" method. I can't answer your question, but I am sure Mark has answered this previously.

So is this what is being discussed: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.30?

If so make a 2L starter divided equally between two jugs unless you have specific knowledge of the best starter size for the yeast,

612
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« on: September 28, 2015, 02:57:20 PM »
I am guessing the shaking method you are referring too is the one in which the starter is in a soda bottle and intermittently the bottle is squeezed to push out the "stale" air in the bottle, allowed to suck in fresh air, and then shook to mix the fresh air with the wort.  However, demijohns cannot be squeezed.  From the yeast calculators, shaking is better than a normal fermentation, but not as good as constant stirring. 

If I was to do the shaking method, which I sometimes do, I would make 2-3 L of starter after checking with a yeast calculator and divide the starter between two 2L bottles. 

613
Ingredients / Re: Adding Cherries to Milk Stout
« on: September 26, 2015, 04:54:23 AM »
Thanks kramerog. Small world. I joined BOSS last year. Thinking I'm gonna go 1.5lbs per gallon
Did you go to the picnic

614
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Partial mash chilling
« on: September 25, 2015, 09:29:16 PM »
68 F.

615
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: building a large starter
« on: September 23, 2015, 03:48:23 PM »
I vote for "pinching." In the first option, 5 L + 5 L does not equal to 10 L.

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