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Messages - rabeb25

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I'm just surprised that the subject of decoction as being necessary to a true Helles has not been raised -  :o :o

Don't wake them back up from their slumbers. They just calmed down about it.

First off, posts like this wake me back up. As YOU could have left it well enough alone yourself, there Mr. pompous engineer. Guess what, there are other engineers in the world, shocking I know. The problem though is almost all of them come off just as you do.

Secondly, as I sit here and happen to be brewing a Helles, which I happen to be decocting. I will tell you its not the answer to a true Helles...A part? Ehh, maybe. There are breweries in Munich (and else where) that no longer decoction mash. I will say with almost certainty a single infusion mash (ala the English method) won't get you there. But there are those who are fine with that, and those who aren't, and thats cool too. Add in the 80/20 rule and all that.

Beer Recipes / Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« on: November 10, 2015, 03:00:16 PM »
The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

But there must be many different varieties of Munich Helles, all using recipes and techniques that vary around a few core essential points. The key is finding out those essential points - not all the details, many of which might not matter so much.

RIGHT, hence.. The devil is in ALL the details  8)

What an age to live in! I can read nine pages of a derailed thread about the “German-ness” of a beer style that 99% of US beer drinkers couldn’t name.

It’s about as amazing as the other forum I follow: Minnesota Twins baseball - where we passionately discuss which middle relief pitchers are worth extending arbitration offers to or which C-level prospect might move from A to AA next spring or if it’s worth it to carry an aging 41 year old outfielder on the 40-man roster (problem solved guys, he's retiring). All of this riveting discussion in just the first week of a long off-season of a middling team.

Cool you must be from MN then, I as well. Are you a helles fan?

Let's get past the BS details.  If you flew to Munich tonight (arriving in time for breakfast with a Hefeweizen as you walk through the MUC Airport Center and stop at Airbrau (I can never tell if they're open for breakfast.  Our flight always gets in late, but there are a few people around there).  Then took the regional into Munich and walked through old city and stopped for a Helles...would your beer taste just like that?  That's the test.  I completely agree with Marshall - it's not HOW you get there, it's getting there.  But there seems to be an abundance of confusion about exactly what a Munich Helles actually tastes like.  I am trying like hell to get there (and go to Germany enough to know what I'm after) and very little of the beer in the US marketed as Helles is like a Helles.

I've just read through the entire thread and WOW, I've lost my morning. 

It's my understanding that all five senses impact your perception of taste, so I highly doubt that you'll ever brew anything that tastes just like that first sip after you've just flown into Munich and walked through the old city to find the right place to have a beer.  Unless you pack some hombrew to take with you to sample side-by-side, you're relying on your memory of the taste of that beer.  Memory is mutable, just as taste is influenced by your other senses.  You'll never be able to capture in a bottle the experience you describe above. All you can really do is brew the best beer you can. 

Not necessarily, we can and do get fresh examples here that are spot on. So we CAN and DO sample and calibrate. I'll be the first to tell you my "authentic" Helles misses the mark(but its pretty close). But in that same breath I can also tell you a single infusion, non german malt, ale yeast will as well. Which is totally fine to me know different strokes and all that.  My issue was with someone not in the know, buying a kit that said it's a Helles, brewing it hoping for angels pissing on your tounge and getting a blone ale.

Beer Recipes / Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« on: November 10, 2015, 10:23:43 AM »
In order to brew a proper helles(or any german beer for that matter), you have to pretty much unlearn everything American homebrewing has taught you.

The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Banana ester in my lager after diacetyl rest
« on: November 10, 2015, 07:32:31 AM »
Was this beer by chance brewed via decoction?

Classifieds / Re: Sooo, any recommended ways to find a career in brewing?
« on: November 10, 2015, 07:30:42 AM »
Get a Degree from Weihenstephan. They will be fighting over you, not the piddly people.. The big boys... thats where the money is at.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hope Your RIght on HSA
« on: November 10, 2015, 07:27:43 AM »
Actually I see it as more of a foam issue. The more HSA the less foam stability there is.

God, I feel like such a fool. Here I am over here, reading and translating what is considered the holy bible of German brewing.

and I could have just bought a kit.

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?
Oh, Bryan, just let it be.

I always thought that maybe the Aussies just had terrible palates... I guess this sort of confirms that, while this method doesn't produce bad beer, it doesn't produce the best possible beer.

I'm sorry...I have trigger words, the American bastardization of traditional German Styles happen to be some of them. It's hard to let that go un-noticed. So its a light ale.

Sure back at hand...No chill sucks, when brewing a traditional beer. You have to account for the extra bitterness and what not extracted from the longer contact. Couple BIAB and some good squeezing with some no-chill and you have a something........ ::)

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way.. you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your "helles" with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can't tell a difference there, I will then be "sold". Still won't call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the "US05" of lager yeasts.

No need as its not a helles. It would be a Kolsch, that isn't within Kolsch specs. Go ask the people who made the style, if it would be a helles with that yeast. I have no problems if "for you" it brews a clean lager like beer. But its doesn't make it a lager, let alone a Helles.

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?

All Grain Brewing / Re: Mash thickness?
« on: October 28, 2015, 06:47:52 AM »
For those that do mash thin/have a high water to grain ratio have you noticed a difference in mouthfeel of the beer?...Compared to a thicker mash of course. When I do mash thinner I see a bit more effeciency but there seems to be a realationship between mash thickness and mouthfeel in the finished beer. To me it's similar to diferences in mash temp. I know some feel it's negligible but I feel it's enough of a factor. Just wanted to see if anyone has compared a difference?

 Bear in mind also that a dilute mash has less buffering capacity than a thick one so you need to take care with water chemistry to hit your target mash pH.

Do you step mash? If so, have you seen pH swings based on the temp (the higher the step the higher pH rises) with low amounts of minerals (i.e. pilsen type water)?

It's all fine and dandy until you bring lagers into the equation.

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