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Messages - rabeb25

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61
All Grain Brewing / Re: Mash Temp/Thickness Taste Perception
« on: February 17, 2015, 12:11:23 PM »
I can't dig it up, but I did post it to Denny's wall awhile ago. I did some tests regarding mash temps and final gravities/taste perception based off of Denny's findings that  varying mash temp yielded the same results. For me, that did not work out to be true.

As I said, at this point I have only a single data point, so it's more of a curiosity than a rule.  In his book "Homebrewing: Beyond the Basics", Mike Karnowski posts some interesting info about his experiments with mash temp and FG.

Yup no worries, Denny!

62
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor
« on: February 17, 2015, 12:10:31 PM »
That didn't/doesn't hold true for me.  My mashes pretty much follow this rule of thumb:

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

This is for my system, pretty much regardless of malt type.
HERMS(two loops, a heat and a cool, accurate to 1/10th of a degree), mill gap of .025, 60 minutes, 5.3-5.5 pH.

I posted my results to Denny's wall, but I have no idea how to find it.

There is no way I will mash a Pils at 156 and add melanoidian, that is a sure recipe for disaster(for me).

Is this all assuming a 1.050 OG?

I would say 1.042-1.055

63
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor
« on: February 17, 2015, 12:08:56 PM »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.

besides grist, yeast and OG. and two FG beers of 1.016 may have completely different perceptions of residual sweetness or apparent dryness when tasted.

Completly agree as well.

64
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor
« on: February 17, 2015, 09:41:54 AM »
That didn't/doesn't hold true for me.  My mashes pretty much follow this rule of thumb:

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

This is for my system, pretty much regardless of malt type.
HERMS(two loops, a heat and a cool, accurate to 1/10th of a degree), mill gap of .025, 60 minutes, 5.3-5.5 pH.

I posted my results to Denny's wall, but I have no idea how to find it.

There is no way I will mash a Pils at 156 and add melanoidian, that is a sure recipe for disaster(for me).

65
All Grain Brewing / Re: Mash Temp/Thickness Taste Perception
« on: February 16, 2015, 04:41:38 PM »
I can't dig it up, but I did post it to Denny's wall awhile ago. I did some tests regarding mash temps and final gravities/taste perception based off of Denny's findings that  varying mash temp yielded the same results. For me, that did not work out to be true.

66
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor
« on: February 15, 2015, 07:01:06 PM »
Sounds pretty close to the Hokurtz method I use. I don't decoct, but all my lagers get it. I do 145 for 40 min, and 158 for 30. Great fermentability but still has great body, and head retention.

67
Ingredients / Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« on: February 15, 2015, 06:45:08 PM »
Thats Ironic, I brewed an Irish Red, only my second in 15 years of brewing(first one was the first Kit I ever brewed).

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs 9.4 oz          Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM)            Grain         1        93.7 %       
3.4 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         2        2.1 %         
3.4 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)   Grain         3        2.1 %         
3.4 oz                Roasted Barley (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)    Grain         4        2.1 %         
28.35 g               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop           5        19.5 IBUs     
1.00 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)        Fining        6        -             
1.00 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         7        -             
1.0 pkg               SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [28 Yeast         8        -             


I didn't pick up butter, I picked up toffe and caramel. But I also have scoresheets here (from the Minnesota mash out) that state diacetyl, and have points off for it as well...........

68
Ingredients / Re: Best Vienna?
« on: February 10, 2015, 01:14:51 PM »
Avangard Pils is currently my pils malt of choice.  I also use Avangard 8L Light Caramel.  I wanted to purchase a bag of Avangard Vienna.  However, my LHBS does not stock it, and I have already cashed in my bulk malt special order chit for the month.
You ordered chit malt in bulk?  :o  :P

Is that bad? I have chit malt in bulk.

69
All Grain Brewing / Re: Martin B. is the man!
« on: January 28, 2015, 01:15:30 PM »
Well this post was all about Brunwater... Brunwater is made to read with a room temp sample. That sample is correlated to mash temp. If Brunwater says 5.3 mash pH, its expects you to read 5.3 on your cooled sample because it does/did the guess work(pH temp shifts) for you.  I think you are thinking if Brunwater reads 5.3 at mash you need to read 5.6 at room, right?

Bru'n Water is not reading anything.  Bru'n Water is telling me how much adjustment I need to make to my water supply based on the grist in order to hit a specific room temperature pH.  The sample was read at room temperature. 

I have always targeted a pH of 5.5 to 5.6 at room temperature because I am targeting a mash temp pH of approximately 5.2 to 5.3.  Targeting a mash pH of 5.2 to 5.3 at room temperature places the mash pH at mash temperature at the bottom end or below that at which limit dextrinase is most effective, and far below that at which alpha-amylase and beta amylase are most effective.   My standard single-infusion mash temperature is 148F, which is just below the temperature at which limit dextrinase is starting to be denatured.

Limit dextrinase Optimum pH 5.1 Optimum Temp ~57°C Denatured 65°C
Beta-Amylase Optimum pH 5.4-5.6 Optimum Temp ~62°C Denatured 68°C
Alfa-Amylase Optimum pH 5.6-5.8 Optimum Temp ~72°C Denatured 80°C


Also in looking at your sample picture, you have WAY to much grain in that sample. You should really have a nice clear (free of particles) sample.
[/quote]

What you are seeing is the top of the tumbler where grain managed to sneak over the lip.  The sample was for the most part was clear of grain particles where the actual sensor was submerged.  The sample was taken immediately after mash-in, not after conversion was partially or fully complete and the wort was for the most part clear of starch.  I am testing for the pH at which enzymatic hydrolysis is occurring.
[/quote]

* shakes head, shrugs shoulders* Ok, *and walks away*

70
All Grain Brewing / Re: Martin B. is the man!
« on: January 28, 2015, 09:49:56 AM »
The problem Mark is that while you are correct on difference in PH at mash temps vs room temp-all the information home brewers have as reference to mah PH and its impact on the beer is relative to mash PH at room temps. Kai's article is just one example, and this forum has more references than you can count.

All of my references point to optimum mash pH being between 5.2 and 5.3 at mash temperature.

Well this post was all about Brunwater... Brunwater is made to read with a room temp sample. That sample is correlated to mash temp. If Brunwater says 5.3 mash pH, its expects you to read 5.3 on your cooled sample because it does/did the guess work(pH temp shifts) for you.  I think you are thinking if Brunwater reads 5.3 at mash you need to read 5.6 at room, right?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on pH values.

Also in looking at your sample picture, you have WAY to much grain in that sample. You should really have a nice clear (free of particles) sample.

71
All Grain Brewing / Re: Mash pH
« on: January 28, 2015, 07:20:55 AM »
http://www.morebeer.com/products/52-ph-stabilizer-1-lb.html

If you're worried about your mash ph not getting to 5.2 you can buy this stuff. Works great!

Does it work for you?  Have you checked your pH after using it?  It not only didn't work for me (and a LOT of others), but it gave my beer weird off flavors.

+10000000 to that.

72
All Grain Brewing / Re: Martin B. is the man!
« on: January 28, 2015, 07:17:56 AM »
read what kai wrote again. He says optima are stated at room temp. so by cooling your sample to room temp you are 'removing the ambiguity'. so 5.2-5.7 is optimal AT ROOM TEMP. you are doing the readings just fine.

However, what matters to enzymatic hydrolysis is the pH at mash temperature, not the pH at room temperature.  A pH of 5.6 at room temperature is as pH of around 5.3 at mash temperature. I thought that this information was common knowledge.

It is common knowledge, but I don't think the actual shift is .3, closer to .2...  I am also fully aware of targeting higher ph's fro the beers. I.e. For a pils I target 5.2-3 for a nice crisp finish (also helps the yeast work faster). I also target 5.4-5 for hoppy American beers, just never went as high as 5.6. I think Kai did a test on higher wort pH's, but didn't know if I missed something.

73
All Grain Brewing / Re: Martin B. is the man!
« on: January 27, 2015, 11:03:11 AM »
FWIW I thought Brunwater was also slated for room temp readings. I.e. 5.3 in brun water assumes you are measuring at room temp.

Which is why I asked S. why he target a higher end of the spectrum mash ph.

74
All Grain Brewing / Re: Martin B. is the man!
« on: January 26, 2015, 03:01:05 PM »
Any reason why you targeted a higher mash pH?

75
Beer Recipes / Re: Munich Dunkel
« on: January 13, 2015, 08:16:08 AM »
I use amber malty FYI.

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