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Messages - davidgzach

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1336
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 15, 2011, 06:36:12 AM »
I remember reading in my research, I'll try to find it, that it becomes more of an issue the longer you leave the beer in primary.  I do not think it matters in the short-term, but becomes a problem in the long-term.  That is why I posted above not to keep the beer in primary for an extended period of time if there was a lot of cold break.  I don't know how long you guys leave a lager on the cake, but I keg after 3 weeks (so long as I had a good fermentation and reach FG) and lager in the keg.  I try to lager 6-8 weeks minimum but usually break down earlier.... :)
I lost a primary carboy in a closet for a year, it was cool but not cold.  That beer won BOS.  I don't recommend doing the same, but it's not a black/white issue.

Tom, totally agree.  Never meant to imply it was.  Just trying to help with some of the reading I have done.

How do you lose a carboy for a year?  What style of beer?  Cool story.

1337
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 05:17:27 PM »
I've posted it here several times before, but a brewer in Europe posted the results of a test he did on the Brews and Views forum.  he left all the trub in one lager and removed it from the other.  Bottom line was that the beer with the trub was clearer and better tasting.  Only a single data point, but an interesting one.

I remember reading in my research, I'll try to find it, that it becomes more of an issue the longer you leave the beer in primary.  I do not think it matters in the short-term, but becomes a problem in the long-term.  That is why I posted above not to keep the beer in primary for an extended period of time if there was a lot of cold break.  I don't know how long you guys leave a lager on the cake, but I keg after 3 weeks (so long as I had a good fermentation and reach FG) and lager in the keg.  I try to lager 6-8 weeks minimum but usually break down earlier.... :)

1338
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 03:15:20 PM »
Just following what I have read dude......

Oh, I completely understand and if it works for you, it's the right thing to do.  If I was having any of the problems mentioned in your post, I might try it, too.  But I'm too pragmatic to expend effort unless I know it will have a payoff. 

I hear ya.  My first lagers were so bad I over-compensated and did everthing possible...... 

Maybe I could scale it back a bit now.

1339
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 03:08:02 PM »
Strong:  Brewing Better Beer, Troubleshooting.  Sulphury:  ".........Reduce it's formation during fermentation by increasing yeast nutrients in wort, increasing lipids, increasing aeration, having healthy, active yeast, and removing hot and cold break and trub."

Goldammer:  The Brewer's Handbook, Chapter 12-Wort Cooling and Aeration, Removal of Cold Break.
"After the wort is cooled, the cold break must be removed before fermentation, or else the beer will taste wort-like, bitter, and even harsh. Opinions vary as to whether cold break should be removed at all before transferring the wort to the fermenter.
Traditional lager brewers advocate the removal of cold break prior to fermentation, and some even filter cold worts prior to pitching (14). Lager brewers believe cold break removal aids in colloidal stability in the beer, circumvents the formation of sulfury flavors, and removes harsh bitter fractions derived from hops."

When I started lagering, my first 2-3 really sucked, so I did a LOT of research as to why.  Now, they are pretty darn good!   ;D

I never remove cold break and I've never suffered any of those problems.  For that matter, I don't know of a commerc ial brewery that removes the break. 

Just following what I have read dude......

1340
Steam Beer and a request for another Pumpkin Ale.  First time brewing a Pumpkin Ale without a real pumpkin.  Got the rice hulls ready!

1341
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 01:25:21 PM »
Thanks Kit!  If you tasted my first few lagers, you would have done the research too!   :D

1342
All Grain Brewing / Re: Missing strike temp - will my end result be ok?
« on: December 14, 2011, 01:11:59 PM »
For some reason, mostly lack of attention, I keep missing my strike temp.  This time I mashed in at what I thought should be good but I ended up about 10 degrees too cool.  I was shooting for a 155 temp for a steam style that I wanted to have good body.
What I ended up doing was mashing at 145 for about 30 minutes and then adding boiling water (took me a while to get the water up to a boil) and brought it up to 156.  Also, adding all that extra water put me into a no-sparge volume.

So, I ended up with a 30 min mash at 145, a 30 min mash at 155 and no sparge.

What do you think my end result will be like?
Thanks


It's not ruined so RDWAHAHB!  Did you stir it before lautering?  What was your OG and efficiency?  

Steam Beers are my favorite.  I'm on Version 8 now.  They are like pizza and cabernet sauvignon.  When Steam Beers are great, they are AWESOME and when they are maybe not as planned, they are still pretty darn good!

1343
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 09:31:38 AM »
Sounds like it is something to think about.  I think I am ok on the cold break.  I will pay attention to it in the future.

Any thoughts on the smell of the lager yeast vs. ale yeast?

It really depends on the strain, but on a whole I have found the smell of lager yeast to be not nearly as yeasty/bready and more sour.

Guys?

Dave

1344
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 09:07:47 AM »
Just thought of something else.  If you had a lot of cold break transfer to the fermenter, you may not want to keep it in primary that long as it can produce sulphur.

Never heard that before.  What is the reference?

Agree, Jeff.  Never heard that one before.

Strong:  Brewing Better Beer, Troubleshooting.  Sulphury:  ".........Reduce it's formation during fermentation by increasing yeast nutrients in wort, increasing lipids, increasing aeration, having healthy, active yeast, and removing hot and cold break and trub."

Goldammer:  The Brewer's Handbook, Chapter 12-Wort Cooling and Aeration, Removal of Cold Break.
"After the wort is cooled, the cold break must be removed before fermentation, or else the beer will taste wort-like, bitter, and even harsh. Opinions vary as to whether cold break should be removed at all before transferring the wort to the fermenter.
Traditional lager brewers advocate the removal of cold break prior to fermentation, and some even filter cold worts prior to pitching (14). Lager brewers believe cold break removal aids in colloidal stability in the beer, circumvents the formation of sulfury flavors, and removes harsh bitter fractions derived from hops."

When I started lagering, my first 2-3 really sucked, so I did a LOT of research as to why.  Now, they are pretty darn good!   ;D

1345
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 08:30:53 AM »
Just thought of something else.  If you had a lot of cold break transfer to the fermenter, you may not want to keep it in primary that long as it can produce sulphur.

There a good list of off-flavors at www.howtobrew.com and a better one in Brewing Better Beer by Strong with the given recommendations on how to fix them.

1346
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 08:11:19 AM »
Put it on CO2, release the pressure and let the CO2 refill to about 10-12 psi.  It clears the headspace and refills with fresh CO2. If you have a lot of acetaldehyde, you can help to reduce it in this way as well as with aging.

1347
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 07:54:54 AM »
Thanks for the tip on the barrel.  I'll definitely chase that one down.

Taste your hydrometer sample when you check next for FG or when you keg if you just leave it in primary.  If it tastes like green apples, that's acetaldehyde.  Try purging your keg once a week for a few weeks.  If it tastes like imitation butter, that's the diacetyl.  Let it warm up for a few days again.  If fruity/estery, let it sit and pray.......

Good luck!

Dave

1348
All Grain Brewing / Re: Storing Bulk Grain
« on: December 14, 2011, 07:21:46 AM »
I use plain buckets with Gamma Seal lids.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24282&catid=686

cheers--
--Michael

How much grain does a 6.5 gallon bucket hold?  20-25 lbs?

1349
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager
« on: December 14, 2011, 07:18:38 AM »
Just reading through.  I recently pitched a gallon starter (decanted) in to a Winter Ale (1.072) which was bubbling in 4 hours and turned my blow off container brown with Krausen.  If you pitch the correct amount of yeast your lagers can very much look like an ale fermenting.  +1 on higher temps giving shorter lag time.

You would have to leave the yeast on the cake for a looong time for autolysis to start if you used a quality yeast, especially for a lager.  Keep it on the cake and let the yeasties do their thing.  If you produced a lot of esters, your only potential remedy is time.  If you produced acetaldehyde, you can try to blow it out with a couple of swirls or by purging a few times if kegged.  You have probably produced diacetyl.  What yeast did you use?  I would bring it up to 65F for 2-3 days at the end of fermentation.

I haven't used a secondary in several years.  Your best bet is to start kegging!  That's a great secondary.....

Jealous on the whiskey barrel.  Where did you guys buy them?

Dave

1350
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Brewing a Maibock......
« on: December 14, 2011, 07:01:47 AM »
I am planning on brewing a Maibock on Monday.  My question....is today too early to make my yeast starter?  My plan is to make the starter today, let it go on the stir plate until Sunday then chill until Monday.  I will decant the wort then pitch the yeast.  Thoughts, ideas or suggestions?

Sounds like a good plan.  +1 in making sure you have a big enough starter.

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