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Messages - AmandaK

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31
And Jeff: 7 generations on the lager yeast. Only 1 for the weizen yeast.

BTW, sorry for so many posts. On mobile in den Biergarten. :)

Jon: yeah, they told me 2.5k for the density meter and the DO meter runs about $24k. I wanted the density meter real bad until I heard the price! Haha.

32
Nice!  Was there any acid malt in the grist?
With the Schwarz, no. I did see acid malt on the shelves though.

33
Any insight into their mash schedule? Do they step mash?

Do you know what base malt(s) they use?
Yes and yes. From memory on the mash schedule. If I screw it up, I'll update ya.

55C for 20'. 62C for 60'. 78C for 10'. Transfer 2/3 of mash to lauter tun, decoct the remaining 1/3, then transfer and lauter.

Malt is exclusively Ireks, outside of Weyermann Carafa.

34
Curious....what is a density meter used for in the brewery?

I think they're talking about a dissolved oxygen meter.
No. Density.

Instant readings of gravity, at all points in the brewing process.

Like this:

35
Sounds like a lot of fun

  • They exclusively use "the Andechs strain" from BSI and pitch a metric ton of it. 4 full 1/2BBL kegs, harvested off the cone of another fully fermented bier, is pitched into a 60BBL fermenter. We pitched a full 1/2BBL keg of 2nd generation yeast ("the best yeast generation") into the 15 BBL fermenter above.

Did they measure the DO?  If so, do you know what they target?
They are actually getting a DO meter on Tuesday, because they are in the process of installing a bottling line and new kegging line. They took some readings with the sales rep before the purchase.

I was told the DO at current keg packaging is 9 ppb. (Yes, billion.) I understand that is very low, especially since they keg by hand at the moment. I would imagine it is so low because they cap the fermenters with 1-1.5 Plato to go and naturally carbonate. Of course, take everything I say with a grain of salt because DO is way out of my wheelhouse.

36
That is really awesome, Amanda! Do they adjust pH in/after the boil, out of curiosity?

I asked the same question and was told that they couldn't do anything about it. I'd assume that is Reinheisgebot related.

37
So we won a scale up at KC Bier Co, a local German-style brewery with amazing German biers. We brewed 15BBL of Schwarzbier. Naturally, I asked a ton of questions.



Their system is a Specialized Mechanical system with a Mash Kettle, Lauter tun, and whirlpool. They follow the Reinheitsgebot (in fact, they are having a 500th Anniversary party for it today) mostly to the letter. I say mostly because they dry hop a couple of special release beers.

Here's some tidbits I found interesting:
  • They don't check the mash pH anymore, but assume that it is around 5.4.
  • Knockout pH for most biers is 5.0-4.9.
  • The final beer pH for many of their lagers is about 4.1-4.2, which is lower than what I aim for.
  • The final beer pH for their hefeweizen is 3.9.
  • When asked what it the most important distinction for brewing German biers, the head brewer insisted on a very loose mash.
  • They exclusively use "the Andechs strain" from BSI and pitch a metric ton of it. 4 full 1/2BBL kegs, harvested off the cone of another fully fermented bier, is pitched into a 60BBL fermenter. We pitched a full 1/2BBL keg of 2nd generation yeast ("the best yeast generation") into the 15 BBL fermenter above.
  • Brewing on a pro system was surprisingly easy. I sure it had to do with our brewer being very professional and knowledgeable more than anything.

They let me take home a bit of their yeast, about 300mL worth. I put it in a starter and DANG look at that krausen!  :o Awesome.

I'm brewing another Pilsner tomorrow with the tips they gave me.  8)

Also, I really, really want a density meter. Too bad they're $2.5k.

38
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: most common off-flavors
« on: April 14, 2016, 01:47:07 PM »
RE: all this astringency chatter

Is it felt in the jowls? Then it is absolutely astringency.
Is it a bitter sensation on the tongue or palate? Probably just bitterness.

FWIW, I prefer to say "harsh bitterness" rather than astringency in the later case. It gets my point across better than saying "hop astringency" - which I don't believe is the correct terminology.

Like Dave, I see plenty of new judges claiming astringency in beers that are just bitter. A bit of education typically works well in those instances.

How would you describe astringency due to hops in beers that aren't all that bitter?  I'm working my way through a bunch of NE IPAs and so far every one has left me with an astringent mouthfeel, even though none had what could be described as "harsh bitterness".  I assume it's due to the massive flavor hopping they do.  Not only can I feel the astringency, my mouth feels like it's coated with hop particles!

Is that "astringent mouthfeel" in the side of the mouth, near the jowls? Then I'll say it's astringency. Do I know that it is from the hops? No. I really work to avoid assumptions in my feedback, so I still wouldn't say "hop astringency" or "astringency due to hops". Just saying those phrases is, in itself, an assumption of process.

As a side bar, I think that NE IPAs are an odd duck. On one hand, they're so chock full of hops that they are almost thick and gritty. But they're also what I'll describe as "fluffy", for lack of a better term, which may mask some of the bitterness. I'm still not sure what to think of them, outside of the fact that I don't like them... which of course means that I don't really want to do further "testing" on it. ;) I would be willing to venture a guess that since the style flies in the face of what is considered normal "best-practices" in brewing, that normal descriptors may not work very well on NE IPAs.


39
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: most common off-flavors
« on: April 14, 2016, 12:58:12 PM »
In response to the original question, the 5 top off 'flavors' I see around here are:
  • Oxidation, especially in APA/IPA
  • Diacetyl, mainly in lagers
  • Acetaldehyde, mainly in lagers
  • Excessive acetic, in sour beers
  • Fusels, in meads

40
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: most common off-flavors
« on: April 14, 2016, 12:53:02 PM »
RE: all this astringency chatter

Is it felt in the jowls? Then it is absolutely astringency.
Is it a bitter sensation on the tongue or palate? Probably just bitterness.

FWIW, I prefer to say "harsh bitterness" rather than astringency in the later case. It gets my point across better than saying "hop astringency" - which I don't believe is the correct terminology.

Like Dave, I see plenty of new judges claiming astringency in beers that are just bitter. A bit of education typically works well in those instances.

41
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Methyl anthranilate (Grape Ester)
« on: April 14, 2016, 07:24:19 AM »
This has been fun and educational to read. I have experienced that flavor described as grape before, but had never associated it with actual grape flavor in my pallet.  I kind of think of the flavor as an under-fermented Pilsner malt flavor - kind of sour, but not really.  Nice to put a name and origin on it.

Totally agree. Thanks guys!

42
Homebrew Competitions / Re: Remaining NHC sites
« on: April 09, 2016, 06:13:27 AM »
We used to do it years ago with San Diego shipping entries up to LA for judging, but San Diego has enough judges to do all that on their own now while we're busy tackling our own big comps.

Same with us up here in Seattle.  We used to have to split the comp between Seattle and Portland because neither had enough judges.  We've concentrated on recruiting/training new judges up here, and now we never have a problem getting enough judges any more.
Same here in KC, but to a smaller extent to far. We have enough local judges to cover a 500-600 bottle comp at 7-8 beers a judge pair without a problem. But it wasn't always like that. Our judge pool has grown 400% in the past two years because of recruitment, education, and a concerted effort to grow the pool (making it easier on all of us).

If we do a little recruitment of our semi-local judge friends, we can easier cover any size beer comp. Hell, at our big comp (600 entries) this past February we had flight sizes in the 3s for some people. Average beers per judge pair was 5.1 beers per flight. Going from 20ish active judges locally to that, it was awesome seeing tangible evidence of the hard work we had all put in over the past years.

And our mead exam results should be in soon, so we will go from 0 Mead Judges to 12! Woot!

43
Homebrew Competitions / Re: Remaining NHC sites
« on: April 08, 2016, 09:17:58 PM »
Nashville exported the cider/mead categories?  Do you know where they went?

Indy.  In capable hands.

Wow!  That is crazy.  I have never heard of them doing this before.  I have heard of them needing to call in judges from other regions to help complete the task, but not this. Interesting...
IIRC, they had the same issue last year though not as bad. Us judges ain't stupid. We aren't going to crappily run comps anymore. Let's hope that there are other sites that the AHA can choose from for 2017 First Round besides Nashville.

44
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 2016 Spring Swap - Official Thread
« on: April 07, 2016, 07:53:26 AM »
I'll be camped out on the porch waiting on the UPS guy on the 4/30  :P

Really. I don't care if it's a little late. I'm just uber stoked to try your beers!

This is my first swap since my hiatus stretched across the last two. So, I'm a bit excited. Looking to be inspired to broaden my horizons a bit with this.

So Frank, how would you feel about your local-commercial beer being a sour fruited beer? A friend of mine (Michael Crane) started a brewery with a group last year and they've been doing some amazing things. Featured in DRAFT recently: http://draftmag.com/crane-brewing-fruit-sours/ The Orange Gose is probably my favorite beer in existance. It's perfect.

45
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 2016 Spring Swap - Official Thread
« on: April 02, 2016, 07:23:49 AM »
Oooo! Them is sharin' beers! Myles will be pleased. :D

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