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Messages - HoosierBrew

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Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 14, 2016, 08:51:17 AM »
Well unfortunately, zee Germans are neither of those, so creating these beers with that mentality may be fruitless. Think about it this way... If this was either cheap, easy, both, or any other variation of the present plethora of methods. This conversation would not be taking place. 

Bryan, slight derail - do you have trouble with getting your water profiles right in low O2 brewing?  I know the paper suggests not adding more sulfate and relying on CaCl2 for Ca content. Makes me think of German Pils where I personally prefer a dry finish that accentuates the hop profile. Is the sulfate presence from the SMB dose sufficient there? Is it too assertive in styles where only a low-moderate sulfate presence is desired?

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Did NB sell out?
« on: October 14, 2016, 08:44:21 AM »
If true, I suspect one plan is to use the shops as another marketing arm. Now that they have several craft(y) brands and a large number of import brands they can package clone kits for sale not only in those shops but everywhere ABI products are sold. The kits advertise the beers and homebrewers brewing the beers become marketers for ABI beers. The shops can run homebrewing festivals where they pour ABI products and have competitions for brewing the kits.

The shops are also another data point on popular styles and ingredients. They can see what styles are selling the most in kits and what hops are most popular. They'll even be able to track by geography what's popular. Then they can dictate new products and where to release products based upon that data in combination with other market data.

That makes sense - I didn't think deviously enough. 

The Pub / Re: Baseball 2016
« on: October 14, 2016, 06:41:00 AM »
  You have to embrace your curse if you are ever going to beat it.

Maybe so.  :)   Hey, whatever it takes !

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Did NB sell out?
« on: October 14, 2016, 05:53:37 AM »
I feel the same, Jesse. I buy elsewhere anyway normally, but I won't buy from them again. Secondly, I just don't get it. Strange buyout to me, especially with homebrewing supposedly leveling off.

The Pub / Re: Baseball 2016
« on: October 14, 2016, 05:49:59 AM »
Cubs & Dodgers NLCS, what do you think, fellas? Dodgers are who I wanted over the Nats. Daniel Murphy was a plague to the Cubs last year in the NLCS, so we don't have to deal with him this time around. And honestly, I was surprised the Dodgers bested the Nats...

As a Cubs fan, it's equal parts excitement and dread. Is this the year they finally do it, or the year they do it again? But I'm not a believer in stupid curses. I think they get it done.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 25
« on: October 13, 2016, 02:27:33 PM »
I knew Denny's position vis a vis LODO going in, so it didn't land so harshly on my ears.  Like I noted above, I am doing some things to minimize uptake of oxygen and seeing pretty good results.  I view both of the other steps (Brewtan B and GBF suggestions) as merely this - (i) additives that assist chemically to guard against oxidation or otherwise create potentially better tasting beer by binding with compounds and chemicals to minimize or eliminate occasional problems and (ii) processes which attempt to assist in guarding against oxidation and otherwise improve beer quality or stability. 

As I see it, there is room at the table for all of this and I think Joe was saying that Brewtan B can help with a number of different things, regardless of what else you use or process you take to make your beer the best that you feel you want it to be (though some things may counteract the effect of others). 

Some additives or processes are within one person's horizon and beyond that same horizon for another brewer, who is content with his beer and feels that the additional marginal effort (be it process or additive) is beyond his needs or beyond what he wishes to undertake in this hobby without further proof of the extent of improvement to be obtained by the effort.

Totally agree. I think maybe things have gotten a little silly if we're actually charting each others' skepticism with minutes and seconds on a podcast. I mean, damn! Who cares whether other people are brewing the way you like? There is only ONE way to brew correctly - namely the way that meets your goals and capabilities. We've jumped the shark here on the peeing contest.

Edit for spelling poorly.

Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 13, 2016, 02:10:06 PM »
In going back to the polyphenol oxidase and its relationship to "IT"...

L-Cysteine is a non-essential amino acid that might be useful.  When used as a food additive it is labeled E920.  It is used in bread making.

"The results suggest that the L-cysteine is a time bound inhibitor of PPO, since its highest concentration (5 mM) gives protection up to 4h having no further effect on the rate of browning reaction in apple juice.

This study looks at it, along with SMB, Citric Acid, and Ascorbic Acid as anti-browning agents:

Hmm, appears that the two most effective were ascorbic acid and SMB. Maybe I wasn't out to lunch on ascorbic for kegging after all, as many breweries have used it. ;)

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 25
« on: October 13, 2016, 10:18:15 AM »
It seemed like the flavor contribution of Brewtan B is in counteracting the effects of iron in the water.  If you are using RO water that shouldn't be an issue, no?  Maybe I missed something.

It supposedly acts to chelate the oxidation from copper( ie., from copper ICs) as well, among other things.

The Pub / Re: Baseball 2016
« on: October 13, 2016, 05:44:33 AM »
Going to Game 1 of the NLCS.  Rooftop, so I won't be in the park.  But whatevah.

I'm long suffering.  Used to go in grade school to see Jody Davis and Rick Sutcliffe.  Before that, Dave Kingman.

Back to even Bill Buckner (pre Red Sox boot) and Rick Monday for me. Damn, I'm getting old. Enjoy!

Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 12, 2016, 06:05:32 PM »
I had a thread on that a while back. Read these.

This is something I missed the first time around:

" Even (E)-2-nonenal, a compound long suspected to be the main cause of oxidized flavour, paradoxically appears to arise by non-oxidative mechanisms in beer. This explains why staling is possible in the absence of oxygen. On the other hand, although some compounds result from oxidation reactions, it is at present not really clear which compound(s) is/are responsible for the oxidation off-flavour of beer."

 Obviously reducing O2 is a desireable goal in brewing, but clearly the whole process is not cut and dried, or completely understood. Thanks for re-posting.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« on: October 12, 2016, 04:29:59 PM »
Ascorbic is a known super oxidizer. So the improper purge is going to hurt you.  Seriously the simplest thing would be to fill keg with Sanitizer push it out. Then naturally carb in the keg.  Yeast is natures best antioxidant. Metal isn't the only things that can cause these reactions. Cleaners and sanitizers do as well.

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I do push out with sanitizer. The ascorbic has been intended as added insurance.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« on: October 12, 2016, 04:14:04 PM »
Anyone who uses a corny keg can not actually purge a keg properly.  The proper way to purge a keg is a series of vacuum and purges. Unfortunately the corny keg can't withstand the proper pressures needed for this.   Ascorbic at kegging with an improper purge is going to potentially facilitate Fenton reactions. Research carbonyls for reference materials on this.

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Maybe I don't fully understand - I thought Fenton reactions were tied more to iron and copper ions ?

There are many references in brewing literature to some breweries using ascorbic as an antioxidant in beer. You're saying it's more about the inability to fully purge the corny before using?

Other Fermentables / Re: Timing of pectic enzyme in cider fermentation
« on: October 12, 2016, 03:05:53 PM »
I add it once, along with the crushed Campden, wait 24 hrs, then pitch. Adding it as you pitch the yeast works fine, too.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: fermenting IPA with spunding valve
« on: October 12, 2016, 03:01:17 PM »
If you believe you're getting oxidation when transferring to the keg, some ascorbic acid should work wonders for that (and may make your IPA taste even more "juicy").

Been doing that for several months now. I feel like there's a benefit there.

Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 12, 2016, 12:19:31 PM »
Thanks Bryan for the info shared. Tides are turning in homebrewing with respect to O2 reduction, quickly for some people, slower for others. Regardless, it's good to have info about various ingredients and approaches, to give brewers a chance to decide what they can do/want to do in their own breweries.

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