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Messages - goschman

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Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 23, 2017, 08:33:41 AM »
Sulfite is just Campden, added at 1 Camden tablet per gallon a couple days before you pitch your yeast.  The Campden/sulfite kills off the nasty wild yeasts and bacteria, and while it does hurt beer yeast and wine yeast a bit (caused them to generate more sulfur), the effects fade enough after a couple days that with a healthy pitch they're able to survive it and be the only critter in your cider.

Now, if you're dry hopping or adding other things later in the fermentation, you might want to sanitize with alcohol or more sulfite to prevent any critters from grabbing hold from that point on too.

Thanks. I assumed that after it hit 7.2% abv that dry hopping would have little chance of adding infection. I suppose it already had the pellicle by that point anyway...

I will give another one a shot in a couple of weeks and see what I get.

Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 23, 2017, 06:53:16 AM »
Cider can certainly be prone to infection.  Some microbes target sugar, others malic acid, etc.

You can sulfite your fermentation but the amount necessary is highly dependent on pH.
If this is happening in primary then you've got a sanitation problem if that is the juice you're using.  With store bought mass produced juice you will be unlikely to have the things necessary in the juice that produce spicy/smoky phenolics when interacting with lactobacillus strains, so I do agree it sounds more like brett than unintended malolactic fermentation.

If this is happening after fermentation is complete then acidifying and sulfiting may help you.

if I'm making a fairly "boring" one-note cider with plain juice then I would increase acidity and alcohol level.  Make it more of a borderline applewine.  Higher alcohol will help protect it.  Usually this involves adding white sugar but if I've got a low sugar juice then my preference is actually to slightly freeze concentrate it. I target 1.058 and above for everything I make.  1.065 is preferable.

Thanks for all the info.

Doing something above 7.2% ABV which is where this ended up is not really something I want. At the time of pitching yeast; fruit puree and agave nectar was added. It was fermented with K97 I believe and dry hopped a week before kegging. I noticed the pellicle about a month in the primary when transferring off the yeast and  the pellicle reformed in the secondary. I have acquired a taste for the finished product however it ended up different than I hoped.

I will look into acidifying and sulfiting as I have no idea what that entails...

Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 22, 2017, 10:07:57 AM »
Ok well it sounds like I am not missing anything regarding ciders being more prone to infections based on process. I will have to chalk this up to bad sanitation practices coincidentally for the two ciders I have attempted but no problems for beer.

Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 22, 2017, 06:48:53 AM »
what kind of Brett character?

Any residual sugar in these ciders?

How's the acid level?  Cider generally does not have a high alcohol level, and if the acidity is also low, as is fairly common with mass-produced juice, they can certainly be prone to infections of various sorts.

I believe the OG was 1.054 and FG was 1.000. I was purposely going for something with higher abv. I backsweetened with a 12 oz can of concentrate. No idea about the acid level...

I am not very familiar with Brett so I would say that its character prominent but not offensive. Has the barnyard/funky thing going on that I always hear about.

Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 21, 2017, 01:07:45 PM »
Thought I saw somewhere that ciders are prone to infection if you don't follow some particular procedure so thought maybe it had something to do with that. Must be imagining things.

Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 20, 2017, 07:41:12 PM »
Was the juice from the juice aisle or the fridge? If from the juice aisle, you don't need to pasteurize as they are shelf stable for many many months. Campden tablets would be a good idea for cider from the fridge.

Good to know. Current batch was from the juice aisle in 2 gallon jugs.

Other Fermentables / Re: Ciders with brett
« on: May 20, 2017, 10:21:30 AM »
Where did you get the juice?

Grocery store. From what I remember it was 100% juice with no preservatives. I think I used different juices for each batch. I suppose both batches could have simply got infected but I have not had that problem with beer.

Other Fermentables / Ciders with brett
« on: May 20, 2017, 09:02:01 AM »
Both ciders I have made ended up with Brett. It never really came through in the first batch but is very present in my current batch. I am not a Brett guy but the current batch is it bad. Why is this happening? Is it because I am not pasteurizing the juice or maybe it has preservatives? I haven't really researched making ciders. Just threw some stuff in a bucket with yeast and let it do its thing...

The Pub / Re: Well, this sucks
« on: May 19, 2017, 05:37:44 PM »
I always found Soundgarden to be unique as their sound relied more heavily on odd time signatures than other acts.

Yep, for sure. Lots of cool, non-typical time changes. They were just fantastic last week. No rust on the instruments or vocals - he tore the place down with his voice at age 52. Got some pretty cool video and pics, too.

Gotta say, I've heard and read a lot in the last couple days about them being just a 'metal' band. Just a need to pigeonhole bands, I guess. They took elements of a lot of influences (including metal) and synthesized them into their own evolving, cool thing. Whatever.

Really cool that you got to see him/them so recently. They were scheduled to be here Monday but I had no plans to go. Good to hear that the vocals were solid as I had the impression they had tailed off significantly over the last few years.

I think all the 'grunge' bands didn't actually have that much in common other than being from Seattle. Nirvana to Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden all sounded significantly different from each other. STP isn't usually lumped in with them only because they came out of California.

The Pub / Re: Well, this sucks
« on: May 19, 2017, 04:16:44 PM »
I am very saddened by this. Superunknown is one of the best alternative rock albums ever in my opinion. As far as grunge is concerned, I always found Soundgarden to be unique as their sound relied more heavily on odd time signatures than other acts.

I was able to see Cornell with Audioslave when they played before Janes on lollapollooza around 2003 or so. He was amazing that night and audioslave completely outshadowed Janes.


All Grain Brewing / Re: water profile for Kolsch?
« on: May 18, 2017, 07:12:45 AM »
I recently saw a recommendation from Martin with ranges that pretty much fall withing the yellow balanced profile (if I remember correctly). For the batch that I currently have on I think I went with that and a mash pH around 5.34. Works well for me.

I will note that I am getting more of drying mineral profile off of this batch but that could be due to using a different yeast as I have brewed this recipe many times and don't know what else it would be.

Beer Recipes / Re: 'Black witbier'
« on: May 14, 2017, 06:48:19 PM »
I like the idea. 10% midnight wheat is way too much in my opinion. Not sure how the color works out but I would try to stay within 5%. I would shoot for 24 srm and call it good. You could always supplement with sinamar as well.

Not sure if there is any info on it but Stone did a black wit that I had on a few ocassions and enjoyed.

Yeah I suppose it was the Brett. I enjoy Saison but it didn't taste anything like one to me.

Interesting. I got a bomber as a gift and was unable to drink it. I had to pour it out becuase it tasted like funky seltzer water. Probably just my unrefined palette.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: adding DME during fermentation?
« on: May 12, 2017, 03:15:40 PM »
Thanks guys.

I just added 1/2# briess extra light to boost the OG. I have never used DME before. Should I expect this to affect the fermentability at all? I had a mash temp of 150F and added some agave nectar and molasses at flameout which should help it to dry out.

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