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Messages - narvin

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31
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Did NB sell out?
« on: October 19, 2016, 05:25:24 PM »
An excuse to AB InBev bash.

I guess people have a problem with all malt beers like Beck's and Kirin Ichiban brewed cheap and fresh with unparalleled consistency in the continental United States.

Go figure. Meanwhile the shelves are crammed with disgusting triple bourbon coffee chocolate porters and hop soup.

Come on.  There is more to beer than low O2 😂

32
All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: October 19, 2016, 07:47:16 AM »
Right I have had my share of Soy sauce and Kibble Zum's.

If you want to replicate a true beer, I will be the first one to tell you, you have to follow the source. But I will say in the same breath that if Zum, decided to ever go modern, the beer would 10x better  8)

Don't disagree.  The one place where I think it may make a difference is Belgium.  The amount of copper is staggering.  And my hommelbier from last fall, step mashed with a copper herms coil for 90 minutes, is still great in bottles a year later despite the fact that obvious oxidation changes have happened.

But, I totally agree that a homebrew scale allows much more oxygen ingress in general.  So even if I keep the copper, I can see trying some kind of lodo/brewtan combination for those beers.  I plan to do it for a NEIPA next.  No, not an oat/yeast/chloride bomb... more of a Trillium clone, which is none of those.

33
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 19, 2016, 07:33:06 AM »
Once I get some Brewtan I'm going to compare the results to using smb and preboiling.  But, I have a therminator and a copper pickup tube in the kettle, and I still saw some improvements on one batch in terms of wort darkening and smoothness and improved lagering time.  Nothing scientific, and I didn't correct for the pH drop from the smb, so I hit a lower level than normal.  But it's enough to make me suggest you try it even without removing copper.

34
I do think that some expansions have been too aggressive, possibly Stone's.  Not everything needs to be nationwide.  People are drinking local, and although not every new or local beer is good, nor will they all succeed, I think the trend of local breweries is here to stay.

35
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 18, 2016, 04:38:49 PM »
I did use my plate chiller to chill to strike temp.  I have a thermocouple probe on the output so it was easy to dial in the temp.

The time to preboiling was longer, but I mostly made up for it doing no sparge.

36
All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: October 18, 2016, 02:10:20 PM »
Going in at 5 mins to the end of the boil, I just rehdrated briefly in water and stirred a bit.

My interested was piqued both by zwiller and reading on the aussie forums about BrewBrite, which was basically carageenan and pvpp.

Again, looking to prevent polyphenols that would require a long lagering time from making it into the keg.  I would much prefer the ease of use on the hot side, which is why I tried it there first.

37
All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: October 18, 2016, 11:12:03 AM »


I also noticed less darkening of the wort during boil.  My kettle pH was 5.2, lower than normal 5.3-5.35, so I don't know how much is attributable to that.  If I did more rigorous test I'd look at the color of first runnings.


The lower pH is 100% the cause of the SMB. At that dose rate you used you are at about .1 reduction.  However, I don't think you will see a color reduction from pH alone, well not in that range anyway. How was the flavor of the wort?

The wort was smooth.  There was an excellent break, which I've had before when lowering pH, but not always.    This fest bier was on the low end of IBUs so I didn't expect a harshness but it definitely seemed like any possible polyphenol harshness was minimized.  So far, so good.

What's your doing rate of the Polyclar?  Recommended is 15g/hL or about 3grams/5G.

I started slightly lower, maybe 4.5 grams per 10 gallons.  I'm willing to try more, although that stuff isn't cheap.

38
So, I haven't listened yet, but I think a couple of differences are
1) Always clean before you sanitize.  An entire pitch of yeast is different than a few cells.

2) Star San has other properties than just low pH for killing

39
All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: October 17, 2016, 05:09:47 PM »


I also noticed less darkening of the wort during boil.  My kettle pH was 5.2, lower than normal 5.3-5.35, so I don't know how much is attributable to that.  If I did more rigorous test I'd look at the color of first runnings.


The lower pH is 100% the cause of the SMB. At that dose rate you used you are at about .1 reduction.  However, I don't think you will see a color reduction from pH alone, well not in that range anyway. How was the flavor of the wort?

The wort was smooth.  There was an excellent break, which I've had before when lowering pH, but not always.    This fest bier was on the low end of IBUs so I didn't expect a harshness but it definitely seemed like any possible polyphenol harshness was minimized.  So far, so good.

40
All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: October 17, 2016, 04:53:24 PM »
I don't want to derail but if the issue that turns people off is the all-or-nothing aspect, I suggest you test any or all of the steps separately.  My humble two cents:

I haven't yet gotten Brewtan to test but I do see an improvement in lagering time from a) preboiling and using 60ppm smb in the mash water, and b) using pvpp in the whirlpool.  My aim was to prevent the formation of polyphenols, or precipitate them, which aging usually does for me but gelatin does not.  I still have a copper pick up tube and didn't keg until fermentation was 90% done, but I do push out of my stainless fermenter using CO2 into kegs purged by pushing out sanitizer.

I also noticed less darkening of the wort during boil.  My kettle pH was 5.2, lower than normal 5.3-5.35, so I don't know how much is attributable to that.  If I did more rigorous test I'd look at the color of first runnings.

So, there are multiple poasible benefits.  For what I need, part of the process may be enough.  That being said, a traditional long lagering period has done well in the past, though it may not give you the modern "big brewer" taste if that is what you want.  I'm also excited to try Brewtan because I'd really like to avoid lengthening the brewday unless it's unavoidable.

41
All Grain Brewing / Re: Introduction to Low Oxygen Brewing
« on: October 17, 2016, 04:39:24 PM »
OR ferment to gravity and sugar prime the keg.

What method are people using to add priming solution to a purged keg without introducing too much air?

The best I can think of is adding a sampling port to your transfer tubing and using a syringe to dose the beer in-line.  Maybe someone else has come up with an easier solution?
You can inject the priming solution through the liquid out fitting.  If I were to add speise or Krauesen to a beer, I would put it into a 2.5 gallon keg (have 2) purge 12 times with 30 PSI CO2, then jumper out to out, and inject into the purged keg.

That is how I would give it a try.

You can also use a club soda plastic bottle and carbonator cap... this works very well for adding gelatin.

42
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Did NB sell out?
« on: October 16, 2016, 02:34:21 PM »
I think it lands more in the "why would they care" category.  If you took ALL the picobrews, grainfathers, etc and added up the net retailer revenue from all of those, what would it equal?  5 grocery stores worth of Bud Light sales for the year?  Maybe just for the holidays?   


It is all about a return on investment - Operating profit and/or ultimate sale of the business line.  Yes, the market is relatively small and that is precisely why it can exert such an influence on the market.  It seems undeniable that the market force that the unit can bring due to its affiliation with such a powerful owner could be overwhelming to the little guys trying to compete...it is at that point that the unit can become highly profitable.  InBev has staying power and this is more shelf space in the small homebrewing market.

I'm not saying the sky is falling nor that there is a conspiracy.  But there is a 1,000 pound gorilla in the room now and it might have a bigger appetite than anticipated.

Exactly.  And, at this point, expect more acquisitions and mergers.  Growth is what looks good to private equity.

43
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 16, 2016, 11:46:27 AM »
http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&p=5787&sid=a5bc1adb29d7b791fc7e6e5320f7eb38#p5787

What was the kettle pH of the two batches?  Did you use acid to adjust for the lowered pH of the smb?

44
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Experimental Brewing podcast Episode 25
« on: October 14, 2016, 06:43:57 PM »
As far as complexity is concerned, you would agree that if you are already heating water to strike temp that an additional increase to boiling wouldn't take that much more time, right?


There's more to it than this.

The molecules in liquid water are held together by "relatively strong hydrogen bonds, and its enthalpy of vaporization, 40.65 kJ/mol, is more than five times the energy required to heat the same quantity of water from 0 °C to 100 °C (cp = 75.3 J K−1 mol−1)"

Obviously we're not evaporating the entire batch, but bring to a boil requires additional energy.  It's very noticeable when you have 15+ gallons of liquor.


45
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 14, 2016, 06:04:46 PM »

You might find this interesting.  I followed this approach instead of preboiling on my last batch.

http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=355

Full disclosure, my newest fest bier I did preboil, no sparge, and use both smb in the strike water and polyclar in the whirlpool.  I'm open to anything, but I'm coming at it from a slightly different angle.  I love my beers, but would like to reduce lagering time.  I find that gelatin is not the same as aging.  I blame the polyphenol Boogeyman.

I still have a copper pick up tube.  I'm convinced that it's essential for classic Belgian styles.  But I have seen improvements in conditioning time for this beer.

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