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Messages - narvin

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General Homebrew Discussion / Re: inkbird 308 question
« on: June 18, 2017, 02:35:25 PM »
You don't want it to maintain a tight air temperature range because quick cycling is bad for the freezer, which is designed to operate for longer periods below freezing.  The jug of water is what I do if I have multiple kegs for conditioning or serving.  If you're fermenting, measure the beer temp directly by attaching it to the side like others have mentioned.  Air temperature is basically irrelevant, as it is not that conductive.

Anyone can enter as long as they don't brew on pro equipment.  I say why not... Just because you are a pro doesn't mean you're good  ;)

The Pub / Re: Seen at homebrewcon
« on: June 17, 2017, 05:48:25 PM »
Lame.  Sorry.

Years ago (last century in fact) I went on a mine tour at Leadville Colorado.  I had to relieve myself in the mine offices, the dry, as the terminology goes, where the miner's change out of their work clothes to their going home clothes.  There was this, in the drain of the urinal.

Not stickered on the outside, but in the money pit itself.

Hatred of InBev borders on political discussion, does it not?  A point I bring forward to the moderators in case they decide to delete my post.  And for the record, I do not care.

How exactly are craft/homebrew buyout discussions even remotely political?  If they are going to pretend to be independent, I'm going to keep pointing out that they aren't. 

The Pub / Seen at homebrewcon
« on: June 17, 2017, 12:28:37 PM »

The Pub / Re: What is the Purpose of this Forum?
« on: June 09, 2017, 09:14:01 AM »

I also would ask everyone to keep in mind that not every homebrewer is pulling down a mid-six-figure income or has infinite brewing space and electrical capacity or infinite sense is that this little piece of demographic information is sometimes where things go off the rails. I greatly admire those who create amazing beer using inexpensive improvised systems--that takes _real_ skill!

A big plus one from! This is exactly how I feel. I'm not a rich man and cant afford the best of everything. I don't have 4k lying around to drop on a shiny new electric HERMS. But, I built a very nice electric system for a couple hundred bucks. Did I use cheap Chinese PID's? Yes. But they work just fine and I paid $15 for them. I didn't have $160 to spend on a March pump. But my little $15 Chinese one works just fine for what I need it to do. So go ahead and be down on a brewer because he doesn't have an infinite money tree. But I can tell you one thing, by building it yourself and having to source parts on a budget, you know your rig inside and out. If it breaks, you know exactly how to fix it.  And, there's so much more satisfaction in drinkning a great beer that you made with your own equipment.

We don't look down on you because of your equipment, man.  There are plenty of other reasons to choose from!  ;D


This is not a knock in any way, and it mirrors my experience nearly exactly. The U guys beat the hell out of beer and can't tell a difference, I agree in the fact that pre-low oxygen I could do the same.
HOWEVER, brewing low oxygen, you can't even look at the wort wrong and it then goes poof into a "normal" beer.  So why strive to do what we do, when the slightest thing turns the beer back to normal like Cinderella at midnight? Because once you taste beer with no oxygen, you are forever tainted and will go to any length to make that stick around. Narvin's reaction, resonated immediately with me, because I have been there. Thats what prompted the low oxygen brewing question, the differences are so dramatic now. I just hope someday you all get to taste that! It's un-explainable, to those who have not.

I hear you, and remember you saying that spunding was one of the biggest difference makers.  I will find out on the next batch.

On the other hand, in your opinion what do you think of the copper specifically in terms of the hop flavor and the effects post-carbonation? Given the use of some other anti-oxidants as well as brewtan b, do you think this would have a large effect on hop flavor due to accelerated oxidation?

The Pub / Re: What is the Purpose of this Forum?
« on: June 07, 2017, 02:52:10 PM »
Phil, I couldn't agree more with you.

The thing is, every time I've thought - "hey, I should go check and see what's going on with the AHA Forum" the top few threads are mostly bickering for no productive reason or threads simply discussing the lack of civility. :-\

The AHA Forum used to be a place were I could learn something. It used to be a place where we all respected each other. Where I wouldn't get PMs telling me that I was doing things wrong. From my stop ins over the past year or so, it hasn't changed much from when I left. Which is a shame.

I guess I have to ask, respectfully, what you were learning 2 years ago that is so much better than what you could learn here now?  There are only so many times that you can be told how to maker a starter (and then after that, only so many you can be told that your yeast are suffering from shear stress).  I feel like I've learned more here in the past year than the year or two before.  I'm not saying that there hasn't always been good information on here, because there has.  The content changes, though, and it has to, or you're just repeating yourself.

All Grain Brewing / Re: What FG should I be shooting for
« on: June 06, 2017, 09:40:14 PM »
I'm drinking an all-grain beer of mine that was mashed at 152 for an hour, and also features a pound of sugar. (Invert syrup, in my case.) OG was 1.052.

Mine finished at 1.002, but still has plenty of body. If your beer finishes this low, make sure you're careful with how you carbonate it. Too much CO2, and it'll definitely get thin. Aim for a more British level of carbonation, and things will be fine.

Curious, which yeast strain?  Some people get superattenuation like this but I never have, even with a true pitch of Dupont cultured yeast (made it to 1.004).  Not judging  :D

All Grain Brewing / Re: What FG should I be shooting for
« on: June 06, 2017, 09:35:45 PM »
hello all, I just brewed an Ale. 10lbs American pale  2row (aka briess I believe), .5 lbs crystal 60, 1 lb table sugar, 1 oz Bravo hops, and 1 packet of US-05 dry yeast.  I did a brew in a bag method in a 5 gallon pot and would add boiling water as needed during my hop boil time in order to finish with about 5 gallons, more like 4.75 gallons.  My OG was 1.064, and I am curious to know if anyone could tell me what sort of FG I should be shooting for? I will be checking with a hydrometer to see what I end up with, I just threw this recipe together real quick but have no idea what sort of ABV I may end up with!


Seriously though... there are a lot of variables here.  but with that amount of sugar, the OG, and US-05, pretty much any mash temp should get you down to 1.008 - 1.012 I'd think.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Wanting to move to all grain
« on: June 06, 2017, 09:26:57 PM »
If you have the big pot and burner you're 90% there.  Coleman coolers are great for converting to mash tuns.  Denny likes the braid but I've made them with a bazooka screen and cooler bulkhead kit that they sell at most homebrew stores, and like that setup.  Either way it's a mash tun that you can use now and in the future if you increase to 10 gallons for a good price... check Walmart (I know) for end of season specials on coolers.

If you haven't drilled your pot yet, you should.  Siphoning or pouring out of a 20 gallon kettle is no fun.  It's easy and the $8 step drill bit I got on amazon worked wonders with nothing but cold hose water (no drilling oil) and the weldless bulkhead kits are great.

The Pub / Re: What is the Purpose of this Forum?
« on: June 06, 2017, 09:10:21 PM »
I know what you're feeling Phil, and yet I'm having a hard time putting it into words.  You probably felt the same way  :D

I'm not cancelling my membership but honestly I really don't look at the magazine anymore.  This is more about me than the content, though.  I think the AHA does good and I go to the conference every year, so I couldn't quit if I wanted to.

I do think that the categories in the forum could be rethought.  Most people don't really know where to put their posts.  General Brewing is a catch-all, and unless it's yeast related or some stainless steel welding porn there's no reason to put it anywhere else.  It doesn't really makes sense to me to have a General, All Grain, AND Extract forum.

I also don't think there should be a dedicated forum for any specific topics or theories (shaken not stirred, LODO, etc).  But... we might be lacking a "Tech Talk" forum.  I think there was more openness to formulae and crap like that on the email distro, but that was just the audience at the time.  If what we're aiming for is a place for all levels, it might work to keep the hardcore math and brewing text references in a separate place.  That doesn't mean that topics like that can't be introduced or referenced elsewhere, but the details could be posted there (and linked in other forums for the adventurous).

Just a thought.

At the risk of burning everyone out on this topic, here's an update after having a couple of pints.  It's still a great beer, and one I'd be happy to have made in the past, or even now if my aims were different.  The friend who has the other keg as well as one of the best palates I've encountered said it could pass for Sculpin.  But it's not the same beer as it was last week. 

Full disclosure: this was intended to be a Trillium "clone", and thanks to JC's forthcomingness online, the recipe was dead on. 

In contrast to the smooth citrus flavor and aroma that was there in the first few days, this tastes like a different type of IPA.  Bitterness has increased, as well as the "rough" quality of the hops.  The alcohol content has become more apparent as well.  Hop aroma increased some since the last test due to more compounds settling and more  carbonation, but I expect this to be offset by further staling.  The bitterness has emphasized the grapefruit flavor over all others, and also muted the perceived sweetness (even though apparent attenuation was 80%) that was there before bitterness/roughness returned.

The thing I think is the most interesting is that most of my beers were not all that drinkable in the first few weeks before the process improvements that I've made over time.  Conditioning always brought on a mellowing that brought flavor balance together and the final product was well appreciated because of the journey.  Tasting what I had out of the fermenter this time is what lead to this disappointment, and I think that -- for good or bad -- oxidation could be the great equalizer.  My goal (and it may not be everyone's) is to replicated what this beer was like before that.

I have more theories. Oxidation of beta acids increase bitterness.  Volatile compounds that are unpleasant get further reduced.  Things even out in the end... wort wants to become beer, after all.  But the effects that made poor beer more drinkable after time also seem to have made amazing beer more average.

If you suspect your CO2 has O2 contamination, you might want to look into sparge carbonation.

If I am reading this correctly, force carbonating via the beverage-out post rather than the gas-in post is the superior method, resulting in less DO.  Do I have that right?

My understanding is that you have to have a spunding valve set to your target pressure ( or usually a bit higher -- overpressure) and bubble the CO2 through at a higher rate, release it to the atmosphere.  Without a carbonation stone, I can't imagkne this would be efficient at home.

Which size canister is this?  I ordered the 11" one, which they claim can hold 10oz comfortably.

Ironically, the 18" from these guys:

In theory, should've given a buttload of hops plenty of room to dissolve fully. Didn't dissolve fully in the center at IPA rates. In fairness, most of the goodness had to have gotten out because I didn't perceive a major dropoff. But I just didn't want to put hops into it at IPA rates to only mostly dissolve.

Yeah, I have two of those from Stainless Brewing (a 10" and an 18").  I agree that you probably don't want to put more than 3 oz. of pellets in the smaller one.

That said, I think they work well if you don't overload.

Maybe I should add rice hulls  ;)

I'm going to try it with 7-8 oz in the keg and let you know.  The beer will be fermenting the last 4-6 points so maybe the action and rising CO2 will help mix. 

If you suspect your CO2 has O2 contamination, you might want to look into sparge carbonation.

Fascinating... I had no idea there was a difference.  This perhaps answers some of my questions about home vs commerical force carbing and why there would be a difference, aside from possibly getting better CO2.

I've given it 5-7 days @ room temp for IPAs and ended up with partially dissolved pellets in the middle. To be clear, I dry hop AIPA/IIPA 5-6+ oz per corny. At my dry hop rate of 2.5 - 3 oz for APA, the canister worked fine. There's definitely a volume threshold.

Which size canister is this?  I ordered the 11" one, which they claim can hold 10oz comfortably.
Marvin, did you use any other low oxygen techniques?   Reason I ask is because it's REALLY amplifies the sharp decline.

Good question 8)  I didn't necessarily want this to turn into a low-o2 brewing thread, but yes, I did.  The water was preboiled and a mix of smb/aa/brewtan went into the liquor as well as some more brewtan before the whirlpool.  The non-low O2 aspects were a copper pickup tube and a therminator (copper brazing, I think), and not spunding.  I've noticed marked changes after force carbonating in the past, so this isn't just a lark, and it hasn't really mattered if the beer was in the primary for 2 weeks or 4; the change happens quickly after kegging.

I think my plan of attack is to split this recipe next time into two kegs: one primed before transfering to naturally carbonate, and one that is actually transferred on day 4 and allowed to finish in the keg with a spunding valve and the dry hops in the strainer canister.

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