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Messages - natebriscoe

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1
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Disappointed with WLP300
« on: September 26, 2016, 08:23:14 AM »
A ferulic rest will increase the clove not banana. That strain throws more banana at cold temperatures. JZ recommends fermenting at 62, I have at 58 and it's a banana bomb at that temperature. 

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2
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 22, 2016, 09:18:26 AM »
Something that occurs to me based on a comment about mash (either LODO or Brewtan) 'smelling better' is that wouldn't the old saw about aroma compounds apply to malt as well as hops?  IOW, if you smell it once, you probably won't smell it again.
I can't speak about the brewtan side, but for the lodo when done right you don't smell the mash.

3
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 21, 2016, 05:26:55 PM »
So, who's the first to incorporate one of these into their brewery?

http://store.liqui-cel.com/
One of the guys on the gbf picked up a used one somewhere.

4
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 20, 2016, 10:29:22 AM »
And, Denny, you being into the experimental brewing thing, this should be right up your alley, dude. Try it and see for yourself. That's basically your motto.

Anyway, I feel like this is a frivolous battle. Brew the way you want to brew that gets you the results you want. End of argument.

I'm also the pragmatic guy....I have to have a reason to expect results, and the process itself has to be reasonable enough so that there's a payback for the effort I put into it.  I don't see that here...yet.  That's why I want to see something other than "the mash smells better" from the people who advocate it.  And yes, I know that there's more to it than the way the mash smells, but at this point I don't see anyting that makes me excited to try it.

And ultimately I agree with you last 3 sentences.
Does this mean you will stop knocking something you haven't tried? Nobody is asking you to endorse it either.

5
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 19, 2016, 10:27:53 AM »
Those are the main things. Malt conditioning isn't required, but sure makes for a smooth lauter. Spunding is the best way, but keg conditioned will hold up for a while. Ferment Ales just like you always would.
But with 5 chillers already, you probably should just dismiss lodo.

Also seems like I'd have to stop batch sparging.  When I see an advantage to LODO, and the advantage isn't outweighed by the PITA factor, I'll give it a try.  In the meantime, your snarkiness is doing nothing to convince me.
Sorry for sounding snarky, just joking around.
No sparge is recommended  (an easier version of batch sparging, no?) With the 100ppm smb dose i think you can do it how ever you want. I fly sparged for a long while with smb, it worked fine.
Cheers

6
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 19, 2016, 10:12:42 AM »
To me, the process seems ridiculously complicated.  In addition, as far as we all know, the benefits are questionable.
Preboil water and buy a stainless chiller is too complicated?
Hey, I'm not here to sell lodo. Do it, don't do it, makes no difference to me. But if someone feels like they make good beer and it's just missing that something, it's worth looking into.
Cheers

Pre-boiling sounds like a PITA, but no it's not complicated.  It seems like some of this is worth trying, whether I get around to it or not is a different question.  If Brewtan gets a similar result and is significantly easier, that might be the route to go.  I need a bigger chiller for my 10 gallon batches, so when I get it I'll probably go stainless.

Guys like RPIScotty, who were hugely skeptical of our LODO friends at the outset, have gone whole hog.  So there's something going on there to convert the skeptics.

I still don't buy the "you can't make good beer if you don't do it this way" dogma, but I'm not hearing so much of that anymore (maybe because those guys stay on their site).
I wouldn't say you can't make good beer unless done this way, but I think you could possibly make even better with controlling mash oxygen.

7
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 19, 2016, 09:30:06 AM »
To me, the process seems ridiculously complicated.  In addition, as far as we all know, the benefits are questionable.
Preboil water and buy a stainless chiller is too complicated?
Hey, I'm not here to sell lodo. Do it, don't do it, makes no difference to me. But if someone feels like they make good beer and it's just missing that something, it's worth looking into.
Cheers

Seems as if there is more to than that.  And I don't want to do either of those things.  I have 5 chillers here already.
Those are the main things. Malt conditioning isn't required, but sure makes for a smooth lauter. Spunding is the best way, but keg conditioned will hold up for a while. Ferment Ales just like you always would.
But with 5 chillers already, you probably should just dismiss lodo.

8
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 18, 2016, 06:20:37 PM »
To me, the process seems ridiculously complicated.  In addition, as far as we all know, the benefits are questionable.
Preboil water and buy a stainless chiller is too complicated?
Hey, I'm not here to sell lodo. Do it, don't do it, makes no difference to me. But if someone feels like they make good beer and it's just missing that something, it's worth looking into.
Cheers

9
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 16, 2016, 04:59:21 PM »
It's that thousand different factors that makes me not won't to bother. It's like hipster pour over coffee. I'm sure it's great, but I don't need the stress.
That was in context to using copper not stainless.

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10
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 16, 2016, 12:45:16 PM »

So if you are incorporating copper to some degree, then do you feel through experience that a stainless steel chiller is not fully necessary to maintain low DO practices?  Just curious, as I am trying to figure out where I can possibly make changes at home.
[/quote]
I think stainless is necessary for the effects to last any useful amount of time. But I think you may be able see the effects with the use of copper for a very short time. Maybe till the end of the mash, maybe the end of fermentation, maybe not at all. It very dependant on a 1000 different factors.

11
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 15, 2016, 07:38:07 PM »
A lot of my batches I have used a  ss plate chiller (which according to the label uses a 99.9 copper brazing material to assemble, very interesting)  to chill strike water and a copper cfc for the final chill.

12
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 15, 2016, 11:31:52 AM »
So is anyone testing the use of brewtan and lodo with the use of copper yet? If not, why not? Even my limited chemistry knowledge tells me brewtan will not get you there alone.

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I have and, so far, haven't noticed a difference between just using a low DO process with the copper chiller. I'll be interested to see what happens when I start using my stainless chiller this weekend. But I'm not brewing what you would call the best style to test for it: a black IPA. I really should be doing a helles again, and maybe I'll end up doing that.
With low o2 mashing I see a difference in all beers and styles, including hoppy.

13
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 15, 2016, 11:02:09 AM »
So is anyone testing the use of brewtan and lodo with the use of copper yet? If not, why not? Even my limited chemistry knowledge tells me brewtan will not get you there alone.

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14
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 15, 2016, 09:31:21 AM »
I haven't got to play with brewtan yet, but it sounds like it with lodo practices might be more forgiving with use of copper.

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15
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: September 15, 2016, 08:44:05 AM »
For those on the fence about low oxygen mashing, it absolutely makes a difference.

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Even with the use of a copper chiller, you think? I've noticed a slight improvement, but not out-of-this-world. I did just get a stainless chiller though, so I'm hoping that'll be the difference I really notice. I'm holding my breath for it, more than I'd like to admit, I'm sure. But, I like stainless anyway.
Let's start with, I have done lodo probably almost every way the paper said not to. For me there was a noticeable difference, even doing it partially wrong. Even with using copper. The big difference was how long it lasted.

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