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Messages - natebriscoe

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31
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: December 06, 2013, 01:21:37 PM »
So I figered out a better recipe for celebration ale for the homebrew scale than the one given from SN.

Care to share?

FWIW Nate, the beer you brewed from the original recipe is quite good. I'm very happy that I have another bottle of it in the fridge waiting for me when I get home.
ok, now this is all on my direct fired rims system (it seems to make a difference on the amount of crystal malts) I find 95 percent us pale ale malt at 3L and 5 percent English c60 is a lot closer than 90/10 us 2 row / c60. Then adjust your mash temp to your system to hit 1.016. Mine is 154f.

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32
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: December 06, 2013, 12:46:43 PM »
So I figered out a better recipe for celebration ale for the homebrew scale than the one given from SN.

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33
So I decided to move the lagers to the keezer at 50F.  I tried to set the fridge to the warmest setting but it still stayed at 41F.  I thought it would be warmer.  Interestingly, for the 2+ days that the carboys were in the fridge the one with the WLP 840 was going gang busters with significant (3 inch) krausen but the Wyeast 2124 was barely active.  Thanks for the input.
the 840 probably was a second generation with a really good count of healthy yeast.

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34
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: December 02, 2013, 02:40:42 PM »
I don't know of many breweries anywhere who would give a lot more detail than we have for this beer (if as much).  We have :        OG
                                 FG
                                 Mash Temp
                                 Hop Schedule
                                 Hop Varieties
                                 Yeast Strain
                                 90% 2 row
                                 10% C60

Clearly with a mash temp that high you would probably need to use some gypsum to dry the finish out a bit. I'm at a loss here.   :o
I'm not complaining about what info they did give, its great that they gave any, they didn't have to. Just here to discuss it. SN and everyone else have different processes, just trying to make the right adjustments.

As both Vinnie Chilurzo and Ken Grossman have said, you can have the same ingredients, but you don't have the equipment or process. You can make something like it, but not identical too it.
I understand this, which is why I was looking for more information on their process to adjust mine accordingly. the only reason I "try" to get it perfect is to learn more on making adjustments of process on my system (and its an awesome beer).

OK, understand that you are looking for those last steps to get there. Those often are the hardest. It is a long journey sometimes. Good luck.
thanks,  just got an email from SN with a homebrew recipe and some other info. Replied back for a little more info, so far I am impressed.  Will see how the second response goes

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35
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 29, 2013, 10:29:00 AM »
I don't know of many breweries anywhere who would give a lot more detail than we have for this beer (if as much).  We have :        OG
                                 FG
                                 Mash Temp
                                 Hop Schedule
                                 Hop Varieties
                                 Yeast Strain
                                 90% 2 row
                                 10% C60

Clearly with a mash temp that high you would probably need to use some gypsum to dry the finish out a bit. I'm at a loss here.   :o
I'm not complaining about what info they did give, its great that they gave any, they didn't have to. Just here to discuss it. SN and everyone else have different processes, just trying to make the right adjustments.

As both Vinnie Chilurzo and Ken Grossman have said, you can have the same ingredients, but you don't have the equipment or process. You can make something like it, but not identical too it.
I understand this, which is why I was looking for more information on their process to adjust mine accordingly. the only reason I "try" to get it perfect is to learn more on making adjustments of process on my system (and its an awesome beer).

36
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 29, 2013, 08:41:52 AM »
I don't know of many breweries anywhere who would give a lot more detail than we have for this beer (if as much).  We have :        OG
                                 FG
                                 Mash Temp
                                 Hop Schedule
                                 Hop Varieties
                                 Yeast Strain
                                 90% 2 row
                                 10% C60

Clearly with a mash temp that high you would probably need to use some gypsum to dry the finish out a bit. I'm at a loss here.   :o
I'm not complaining about what info they did give, its great that they gave any, they didn't have to. Just here to discuss it. SN and everyone else have different processes, just trying to make the right adjustments.

37
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 29, 2013, 07:38:24 AM »
Dunno what to tell you.  I can guarantee you that the info Jeff and I have passed along is straight form the horse's mouth.  They're very straightforward with their brewing...no tricks.
[/quote]  Sorry Denny, i'm sure its good info. i just can't make it work on my system, i'm sure its just a difference in process and a 200 bbl system has to behave differently than a 10 gallon. Then being that big of a system maybe they don't measure out grain real exact (so many bags of this, so many bags of that) and instead of 10% its 6.5%, would make a big difference at 5 gallon system. But thanks for the info still.
[/quote]

I can't say for certain, but I think beers like Celebration are brewed on the 100 barrel copper direct fired system. The 200 bbl is Copper on the outside for looks, SS on the inside, with a calandra to supply the heat. More Maillard reactions on the copper direct faired system.

Edit - to be more exact, listen to the Brewing network interview with Steve Dressler he gives the recipe for Celebration at the end. Now I think he rattled off all of the details for 200 bbls. He specifies malt and hops in his quantities, up to the homebrewer to scale it down.
[/quote] I have listened to their interview before (a good interview), they just didn't get specific enough for me, like about this amount of grain or grain from this maltster or we mash at 158 but it takes us 2 hours to get it all up to a boil, stuff like that.

38
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:27:02 PM »
that what denny and everyone else says on the base malt. And I'm not calling them liars, but I get a very pronounced toasty flavor that I can't get with 2l 2 row and English crystal.

Dunno what to tell you.  I can guarantee you that the info Jeff and I have passed along is straight form the horse's mouth.  They're very straightforward with their brewing...no tricks.
  Sorry Denny, i'm sure its good info. i just can't make it work on my system, i'm sure its just a difference in process and a 200 bbl system has to behave differently than a 10 gallon. Then being that big of a system maybe they don't measure out grain real exact (so many bags of this, so many bags of that) and instead of 10% its 6.5%, would make a big difference at 5 gallon system. But thanks for the info still.   

39
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 06:00:37 PM »
When I last made a Celebration Ale - type beer I mashed @ 155F (never realizing that SN mashed @ 158F).  What I did then was to add a bit more CaCl2 than I normally would for a West Coast hoppy beer, realizing that Celebration has a pretty full,firm malt base. I wasn't trying to clone it but in terms of body and balance, it was pretty comparable.

this is another aspect to consider, there is more to a full malty mouthfeel/flavor than just residual long chain sugars. How does the water play with the hops? what level of crystal is being used? What's the carbonation level like?
SN says 90 base 10 English c60, which I have used, but I find to be syrupy sweet at those amounts even after adjusting to hit the right fg.

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their base malt is NA 2Row, Rahr or Great Western. English C60 is the crystal. They probably use a high amount of SO4 to get the finish dry, and they have lots of healthy Chico yeast to use.
that what denny and everyone else says on the base malt. And I'm not calling them liars, but I get a very pronounced toasty flavor that I can't get with 2l 2 row and English crystal.

40
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:39:22 PM »
When I last made a Celebration Ale - type beer I mashed @ 155F (never realizing that SN mashed @ 158F).  What I did then was to add a bit more CaCl2 than I normally would for a West Coast hoppy beer, realizing that Celebration has a pretty full,firm malt base. I wasn't trying to clone it but in terms of body and balance, it was pretty comparable.

this is another aspect to consider, there is more to a full malty mouthfeel/flavor than just residual long chain sugars. How does the water play with the hops? what level of crystal is being used? What's the carbonation level like?
SN says 90 base 10 English c60, which I have used, but I find to be syrupy sweet at those amounts even after adjusting to hit the right fg.

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41
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 02:59:24 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?

Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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This would mean that your mash rested longer at sacc rest temps, which would have promoted more attenuative wort, I think.
that's correct, which is why I had to go to a mashout.

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I'm confused, if you want greater attenuation and you have noticed greater attenuation when you skip the mashout step then try skipping the mashout step. Perhaps you are not getting full beta conversion and denaturing the beta amylase with your mashout step before it has done all it can do with that mash.
because I'm trying to follow a commercial recipe, which has a mash temp of 158f (less beta more alpa). But I can't seem to make those numbers work. Would I be missing something in the body/mouthfeel by just using a lower mash temp or mashing high with no mashout.

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42
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 02:52:30 PM »
Ok, so, what would be the major difference between using a lower mash temp vs not mashing out and getting a more fermentable wort?

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43
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 02:48:12 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?

Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
This would mean that your mash rested longer at sacc rest temps, which would have promoted more attenuative wort, I think.
that's correct, which is why I had to go to a mashout.

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44
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 02:44:57 PM »
Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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Are you fly sparging?
yes, with a mashout prior to.

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45
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 12:21:37 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

How do you know your thermometers are accurate?
I have checked them all to 2 lab thermometers. Matching up with beersmith also makes me feel that thier pretty close. Also before I did mashouts my fg would come in lower than the calculators.

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