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Messages - troybinso

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Kegging and Bottling / Re: kegging and oxidaiton
« on: July 08, 2014, 08:42:28 PM »
I have mentioned this fact more than one time. Cold-side aeration does not lead to the development of 2-nonenal (a.k.a. that stale paper-like flavor).  Oxidation that leads to 2-nonenal development occurs during the malting and mashing processes, as 2-nonenal precusors are developed during the malting and mashing processes.    In essence, 2-nonenal is a hot-side, not a cold-side phenomenon.  Formation of this compound in finished beer occurs in the absence of oxygen.

Wow, I had no idea that there were hot-side factors to staling. It has been "accepted knowledge" that oxidation post-fermentation and at packaging is a cause of cardboard off-flavors described as staling. Is this not the case? What can we do to avoid staling on the hot side? And what are the staling effects that we can expect on the cold side?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Yeast taste difference
« on: July 02, 2014, 12:46:15 PM »
For those two yeasts there will be very little difference. I would argue that there are slight differences that are hard to pick out unless you are doing a side by side tasting.

WL001 vs a Belgian Saison yeast, or a Hefeweizen yeast will taste very different.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Saison per Wyeast
« on: June 30, 2014, 08:14:29 AM »
I recently made a Saison and added a tincture of black pepper, cardamom, and grains of paradise soaked in vodka. I added this to taste art kegging so I could control the amount. It came out great.

Could you post details of your tincture, speaking to someone who's never done it?  How much of each spice, soaked in how much vodka, and for how long?  And about how much of this did you end up adding to your beer?  I get the generalities of the process but don't understand where to start in terms of quantities.

I cracked 1 gram of grains of paradise, 1 gram of cardamom, and 2 grams of black pepper and soaked them in about 4 ounces of vodka. I let them sit in there for a few days, but based on the aroma, I think a few hours would have been sufficient. I then dosed a few measured tasters of the cold, uncarbonated beer with different measured amounts of the tincture. I don't remember the details on that, but it was something like a couple of ml of tincture to a couple of ounces of beer. When I decided which one I liked best it turned out that I would need to add the entire 4 ounces of vodka to the batch (and maybe a little more if I had had it) to reach that level of flavor in the 5 gallon volume of beer, so I just put it all in and called it good. I strained it through some cheescloth covering a straining and it kept the little bits of spices out of the keg.

The flavor is noticeable but not overpowering. I did something similar with fresh orange peel and coriander. It is a nice way to split a batch of saison.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Saison per Wyeast
« on: June 29, 2014, 08:55:43 PM »

One interesting thing (to me, anyway) is that neither of us taste the pepper at all.  We might taste the orange, but overall we pick up more of a bright, lemony taste than orange.  When this first started to ferment, I could smell the black pepper through the airlock.  It faded over time, though, and I get no sign of it now.  The Nelson Sauvignon white wine taste is the most prevalent, though very much in balance.  I would be interested in strategies to bring a bit of the black pepper into the finished beer.

I recently made a Saison and added a tincture of black pepper, cardamom, and grains of paradise soaked in vodka. I added this to taste art kegging so I could control the amount. It came out great.

That is a lot of hops for a beer that small. I think you might be overdoing it a little, but you did say that you wanted a boat load, so I guess that is what you are going for. Definitely mash very high - around 160 if you want to get any body out of a beer this low in gravity with a very high attenuating yeast.

Never used that yeast, but I have made a lot of saisons and 90 degrees is really pushing the upper end. I guess I would suggest to pitch the yeast at the lowest temp possible you can manage - low to mid 60's would be great, and let it rise to the temp that you can manage.

Beer Travel / Seattle
« on: June 23, 2014, 08:58:14 AM »
I am headed to Seattle this weekend mostly for some beer tasting. I am really planning on heading to Ballard to check out the explosion of small breweries there in the past few years in the hopes of getting some ideas for myself to follow suit in a different town. Any suggestions would be great, and if anyone knows or is one of the brewers or owners of a nanobrewery in the area, I would really appreciate a couple of minutes of their time so I could ask a few questions about the business. Thanks in advance.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: IPA: Beer style or marketing term?
« on: June 10, 2014, 02:44:19 PM »
I don't recall seeing or drinking something a brewer called a Red IPA.  That one can fit into the Brewer's Association Imperial Red Ale style.

Yeah, I guess I haven't had a Red IPA, but I have had a few called IRA (India Red Ale).

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: IPA: Beer style or marketing term?
« on: June 10, 2014, 10:46:50 AM »
Go to the UK and have a Greene King IPA, just a Bitter in my book, and not very bitter or hoppy as far as Bitters go.

And an ordinary bitter at that!


Lots of people say they like this fine ale because it's well balanced with a refreshing, hoppy flavour and a clean, bitter finish. We create the hoppy aroma and flavour using two varieties of English hop – Challenger and First Gold. Our brewers adds the hops to the copper by hand, just as we've always done, and by blending in pale, crystal and black malts he balances the hops with the richness of the malts. The refreshing flavour of Greene King IPA makes it a great accompaniment to spicier foods and curries (though it's always nice simply enjoyed with friends...).

Speaking of the UK, British craft and home brewers are now calling any hoppy American-style ale that they make American IPA, regardless of O.G.  Unlike American excise tax, British beer is taxed on the percentage of alcohol that it contains.

Right, and I forgot about the Canadian IPA - Alexander Keith, which isn't very hoppy. I suppose I was referring to American craft beer, but it is interesting to see what is happening internationally too.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: IPA: Beer style or marketing term?
« on: June 10, 2014, 09:48:52 AM »
I don't mind all the sub categories of IPA because it helps me understand what to expect.

However, these beer styles have as much in common with IPA as golden retrievers have in common with wheaten terriers.  American IPA is an adaptation of English IPA that uses domestic ingredients.  It is not so far away from the original style as to be unrecognizable.  Most people who have been away from the craft brewing scene for a while would think hoppy porter, not black IPA upon seeing and drinking a black IPA for the first time.

But we don't get to decide what an IPA is, the market does. IPA has changed over time into something different from its "original style." A brewery can slap the term IPA onto anything they want - the one constant that I can see is that an IPA is always hoppy. Although I would like to hear of an example that wasn't.

General Homebrew Discussion / IPA: Beer style or marketing term?
« on: June 10, 2014, 08:44:31 AM »
I got to thinking about all of the different types of IPA that you can get from craft breweries. It started off with American IPA and English IPA. Then came Double/Imperial IPA. Then in the last 10 years or so there has been an explosion of subcategories of IPA including: Triple IPA, Red, Black and White IPA, IPL, Session IPA, and I am sure there are a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Truthfully, I love IPA and it doesn't bother me to hear craft brewers using these new terms to get another IPA out there. Why are they doing it? IPA is the fastest growing craft beer style.  So why do they call a beer "Black IPA" instead of "American Black ale" or "Session IPA" instead of "Extra hoppy American Pale Ale"? Because IPA is what is selling the best. Craft brewers love to make beer, but they have to sell it. Homebrewers just get to do the making part. Successful marketing is a huge part of a successful craft beer business, and having a new IPA is what is popular right now. So really, the definition of IPA has changed. IPA doesn't actually mean "India Pale Ale" anymore. It just means "IPA" - which is shorthand for a beer that is extra hoppy.

For all of us beer nerds who have dog-eared copies of Mitch Steele's IPA book and have made historical IPA recipes (I am one of them), there are 10 more young craft beer drinkers who are just getting introduced to beer. For them, IPA is a flavorful new thing that tastes nothing like Coors Light. They can go into a bar or a brewpub or the grocery store and find an IPA and know that it is going to be different and exciting to drink. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Black Butte Porter were the beers that got me into craft beer 20 years ago, and IPA is what is getting new beer drinkers into craft beer now.

That's a re-purposed stainless steel milk transport can.

you mean like this?

I guess you need to drill a 12mm hole in the lid for the air lock.

Beer Recipes / Re: An ale that tastes like a lger?
« on: June 01, 2014, 09:22:02 PM »
[quote author=erockrph link=topic=19471.msg248169#msg248169 date=1401679129

You can certainly brew a lager-type ale, but it's still going to taste like an ale. Although lager yeasts are noted for clean fermentations, they still have a distinct flavor profile.

Agreed. Lager and Ale yeast just taste different. You can have a "clean" ferment from either one and they will give a different flavor profile. If you want something to taste like a lager, use a lager yeast and ferment it at the right temperature. If you want to brew a beer with an ale yeast but you want to hide some of the ale features, use wy1056 or an equivalent and start fermentation around 60 degrees. It won't taste like a lager, but it will hide some ale-like qualities.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Happy Accident
« on: May 31, 2014, 07:53:32 AM »
Isn't it possible that the source of contamination is the raspberries and not the yeast? If this is a split batch, did both parts get contaminated?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Am I being too anal?
« on: May 19, 2014, 09:18:09 AM »
Typo and incorrect word fixed.  Yike.  I always read a post 2-3 times before I hit 'Post.'

I ferment in a stainless conical - I guess I also should have said that.  I can just put a tri-clamp cap on the lid, but I think it'll just suck air through the gasket.  I hear you all say that it doesn't matter, so on to the next 'system improvement project.'  Thanks for the input.

Can your conical take a little bit of pressure? You could connect you co2 tank at low pressure while chilling and you will have nothing to worry about.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Am I being to anal?
« on: May 18, 2014, 06:11:42 PM »
There is only so much you can do about it if you are using a carboy. Even if you use a solid stopper then as soon as you take the stopper off it will suck in the ambient air. I guess you could put on a solid stopper, then crash cool and then let it warm back up before you transfer it. Also, you can use a solid stopper, then crash cool and then open the carboy and shoot in a few blasts of co2 before you close it back up. Not sure it is something to worry about, but if you are trying to save beer for a long time, the less oxygen the better.

Professional breweries have pressurizable conical tanks. Usually you will cap off the tank with just a little bit of fermentation left to go to start building up some pressure inside the tank. This allows the pressurized co2 to just be absorbed into the beer once it cools down, and even when you open the tank after chilling there is positive pressure.

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