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Messages - troybinso

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31
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 13, 2016, 08:51:32 AM »
How are you keeping the water from reabsorbing oxygen as it cools to mash temp? Also how are you keeping oxygen out of the mash tun?

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32
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 13, 2016, 07:40:55 AM »
I'll be curious to see where this discussion goes after people listen to what Joe has to say on today's podcast.

I gave it a listen. It's interesting to get his take on Brewtan B, and while most of what he said is technically correct, it's incorrect to conclude that Brewtan B prevents oxygen from reacting in the mash/boil altogether. I actually noticed that Joe hedged a bit on this - he said oxygen wouldn't react in the same way it normally would. He didn't say it wouldn't react at all.

Oxygen has more than one pathway to react with stuff in the mash. The Fenton reaction is only one of these pathways. Another set of major oxidative pathways are through naturally occurring enzymes found in the malt, such as lipoxygenase and polyphenol oxidase. I think polyphenol oxidase is the real bogeyman here, because we hypothesize that the simple, low molecular weight malt phenols are the main source of the fresh malt "it" flavor, and polyphenol oxidase is specifically made for catalyzing the oxidation of those phenols.

To use an analogy:

Using Brewtan B in oxygen-saturated water and expecting zero oxidation to take place is like mashing at 160 F and expecting no starch conversion to take place because you've denatured beta amylase at that temperature. It doesn't work, because you've overlooked the fact that alpha amylase is still active at 160 F and provides another pathway for the starch to convert.



This is a side-by-side picture of wort produced with a normal process (on the left) and wort made with the low-oxygen process (on the right). The color difference is indicative of the fact that the polyphenol oxidase enzyme has been inhibited. When polyphenol oxidase (which is the same type of enzyme that turns sliced apples or avocados brown when exposed to air) oxidizes the malt phenols into quinones, they polymerize to form reddish-brown polyphenols. The fresh malt flavors of the phenols disappear, and are replaced by a bitter malt flavor (George Fix called this "herbstoffe").

If Brewtan B doesn't make the wort several shades lighter (like the picture above), then it's not blocking all oxidative reactions in the mash.

I think that Brewtan B could absolutely be a useful tool, and i see it helping more post-fermentation because the Fenton reaction is also a big oxidative pathway in finished beer. So it could definitely help with shelf stability there - but I don't see how it can possibly be a magic bullet all by itself. Note that other commonly used additives like gelatin and Irish moss can also have metal chelating properties.
The image of those two glasses of wort clearly shows a difference in color. Can you elaborate on the specific differences between the process of producing each batch of wort?

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One wort was made with low o2 mashing procedures (light), the other was standard homebrewing procedures(dark).
The differences at that stage would be preboiled water and smb.

Wow. That is a pretty significant difference. Did you purge the mash tun of oxygen? If the only difference is SMB and preboiled water then that seems like a worthwhile couple of extra steps with hardly any effort.

33
Ingredients / Re: Brewtan B
« on: October 12, 2016, 09:40:14 PM »
I'll be curious to see where this discussion goes after people listen to what Joe has to say on today's podcast.

I gave it a listen. It's interesting to get his take on Brewtan B, and while most of what he said is technically correct, it's incorrect to conclude that Brewtan B prevents oxygen from reacting in the mash/boil altogether. I actually noticed that Joe hedged a bit on this - he said oxygen wouldn't react in the same way it normally would. He didn't say it wouldn't react at all.

Oxygen has more than one pathway to react with stuff in the mash. The Fenton reaction is only one of these pathways. Another set of major oxidative pathways are through naturally occurring enzymes found in the malt, such as lipoxygenase and polyphenol oxidase. I think polyphenol oxidase is the real bogeyman here, because we hypothesize that the simple, low molecular weight malt phenols are the main source of the fresh malt "it" flavor, and polyphenol oxidase is specifically made for catalyzing the oxidation of those phenols.

To use an analogy:

Using Brewtan B in oxygen-saturated water and expecting zero oxidation to take place is like mashing at 160 F and expecting no starch conversion to take place because you've denatured beta amylase at that temperature. It doesn't work, because you've overlooked the fact that alpha amylase is still active at 160 F and provides another pathway for the starch to convert.



This is a side-by-side picture of wort produced with a normal process (on the left) and wort made with the low-oxygen process (on the right). The color difference is indicative of the fact that the polyphenol oxidase enzyme has been inhibited. When polyphenol oxidase (which is the same type of enzyme that turns sliced apples or avocados brown when exposed to air) oxidizes the malt phenols into quinones, they polymerize to form reddish-brown polyphenols. The fresh malt flavors of the phenols disappear, and are replaced by a bitter malt flavor (George Fix called this "herbstoffe").

If Brewtan B doesn't make the wort several shades lighter (like the picture above), then it's not blocking all oxidative reactions in the mash.

I think that Brewtan B could absolutely be a useful tool, and i see it helping more post-fermentation because the Fenton reaction is also a big oxidative pathway in finished beer. So it could definitely help with shelf stability there - but I don't see how it can possibly be a magic bullet all by itself. Note that other commonly used additives like gelatin and Irish moss can also have metal chelating properties.
The image of those two glasses of wort clearly shows a difference in color. Can you elaborate on the specific differences between the process of producing each batch of wort?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


34
General Homebrew Discussion / flaked grains and cloudiness
« on: October 01, 2016, 09:11:33 AM »
Do flaked grains (rye, oats, wheat, etc.) at 15% cause a beer to be cloudy?

35
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Headspace and flavor/aroma stability?
« on: September 22, 2016, 05:16:31 PM »
Could there have been some oxygen in the keg? If there was and it sloshed around a lot it could have sped up the oxidation process.

36
Kegging and Bottling / Re: growler
« on: August 14, 2016, 02:06:40 PM »
Any screw top glass jug will work, but I really love the insulated stainless steel growlers. They keep the beer cold, you don't have to find a cap, and they don't break.

this looks like the one I have. It is easier to fill the ones with shoulders - they don't foam up as much.

https://www.amazon.com/Growler-Stainless-Insulated-64-Ounce-Beverages/dp/B00ZCM7V8K/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1471208744&sr=8-6&keywords=stainless+growler

37
The pump will cause the wort to get colder. When it runs through the hoses it is losing heat. I think you should go with a better wind shield and grind the grains the night before.

38
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Homebrewer to Pro, Licensing
« on: July 15, 2016, 09:41:24 PM »
In my neck of the woods you can have a brewery in an outbuilding in the county, but not in city limits. There are dozens of wineries in the county as well, and a history of home winemaking so I guess there is a precedent. There are good reasons for zoning rules about keeping retail businesses out of residential areas which have all been mentioned previously.

If you really want to start a small brewery be prepared for an expensive and slow endeavor. The current waiting list at the TTB is 160 days. And you must have a lease and the equipment before you apply.

39
Equipment and Software / Re: Another pump thread
« on: July 14, 2016, 09:02:20 PM »
What are you going to use it for? That is a really slow pump at 8l per minute. It will slow way down as it reaches its height limit of 10 feet.

40
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Top Cropping crash course?
« on: July 14, 2016, 08:02:22 AM »

Many brewers skim their crop when the wort hits 50% apparent attenuation.  I recently discovered that this practice is not optimal with true Yorkshire strains.  The mid-head has to be "beaten" back into the wort, or one will end up with a diacetyl bomb.  I am now waiting until the end of fermentation to take my crop when using Yorkshire strains.


Can you elaborate on this? What causes the diacetyl to form if you don't beat the mid-head back?

41
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Dry Hop + Yeast Dump
« on: July 03, 2016, 11:34:07 AM »
You really need to cold crash it if you hope to keep the hop pellet floaties out of your finished beer. You only need to dry hop for a couple of days (or less) to extract the flavor you want, then get it as cold as possible. It usually takes a couple of days at cold temperatures for the hops and yeast to drop down to the bottom of the tank, but you don't risk extracting off flavors at cold temperatures. Well, I suppose if you left it in the tank with hops and yeast for months then it might be bad, but for a few weeks you should be fine. After the stuff has fallen, dump the yeast and hops out of the bottom until beer starts flowing, and then package it.

42
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Dry Hop + Yeast Dump
« on: July 01, 2016, 10:16:38 AM »
No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that if you are using a conical, the yeast at the very bottom of the cone is dormant. The OP said he had dumped some yeast, so I assumed that he didnt dump it all.

43
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Dry Hop + Yeast Dump
« on: July 01, 2016, 08:30:49 AM »
If you dropped the yeast out of the bottom of the conical that means it had flocculated and fallen down there. It does this when it is done fermenting. There is still a bunch of yeast in suspension after only 4 days of fermentation, so any last bit of cleaning up will still take place. The stuff at the bottom has basically fallen asleep.

44
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Sankey D Kegs
« on: June 24, 2016, 07:53:59 AM »
Sankey kegs can be a little bit tricky to use because it is difficult to pull the spear out. It is essentially a closed system all the time and so you need to be able to clean and fill with it sealed up. That being said, if you can fill and clean easily, they are a much better system than corny kegs. There are so many ways a corny keg can fail - the connects, poppets, lid, pressure relief - can all leak gas (or beer). Sankey kegs only have one connection.


45
Ingredients / Re: Lovibond Squared
« on: June 22, 2016, 08:22:48 AM »
I think you a mis-equating "malty" with "crystal-malt flavor." Sure crystal malts add maltiness to a beer, but they also add a candy-like element that can be overpowering and can quickly push a beer into the undrinkable category.

I can't say that I have had a beer that is close to 50% crystal malt, but I have had some that are 15% and the crystal malt flavor was just too dominant. Personally, I have a maximum of about 10% crystal malt in beers that I make, and so yes, I think a 45% crystal malt beer would taste awful.

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