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Messages - denny

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1
OK, you believe it.  Any evidence you can offer?

Well, I haven't done laboratory-quality experiments, but here's specific numerical data from my last 10 batches so you can review it and decide for yourself if you think I'm full of crap:



Yes, these were all single infusions.  Temperatures are averaged over the course of the mash, typically starting about 3-4 degrees higher and falling 3-4 degrees lower than the numbers reported.

Cheers.

 But there's nothing there that says that temp drop caused that kind of attenuation.  It could be any number of things.

2
I'm big on single infusion, almost always do.  And, I don't believe beta amylase is denatured as fast as some folks might be led to believe.  I think it lasts a good while, such that starting a mash at 152 F which then falls to like 145 F within say 45 minutes (like mine does!) still allows people (like me!) to reap most of the benefits of beta.  My beers usually attenuate pretty normally depending on strain, like in the 70s for many yeasts or up to 80-82% for US-05 (which I use quite a bit), which I think is all pretty normal.  Sure, many of your English yeasts will attenuate less in the 60s like normal too.  But I haven't noticed anything odd, and I really don't fret over insulating the mash tun.  I just aim a few degrees high then let it fall.  I say all this, and, I only mash for 40-45 minutes on average, which should in theory reduce my attenuation even more.... but it really doesn't.  Maybe by a couple percent, but not where I'd really notice it too much.  Sure, if I want super high attenuation, I'll mash longer, and it does improve attenuation.

OK, you believe it.  Any evidence you can offer?

3
What happens when you go the other way?  You start out a single infusion at 152* but your tun insulation isn't the best so that after an hour you're at 145*.

Likely you will have denatured the enzymes that work at lower temps by that point so it would do nothing.

4
Actually, now that I think about it, I may try a mashout.  The Grainfather takes a while to get to a boil.  I haven't noticed overly fermentable beers from not doing one, but it would be interesting to see if there's a difference.

5
Interestingly enough, I've been playing with step mashes lately.  I just got a Connect controller for my Grainfather, so it's easy to program the rests.  I've been doing 131 for 10, 145 for 30 and 158 for 30.  At this point, the beers are indistinguishable from those made with a single 153 60 min. rest.  I intend to keep testing.

You may try bumping the alpha rest up to 162 F for the same duration and mashing out at 171 for 10 minutes.

If you do, report back.

Alpha rest increase I'li likely try.  Not sure there's any reason to do a mashout, though.

6
Interestingly enough, I've been playing with step mashes lately.  I just got a Connect controller for my Grainfather, so it's easy to program the rests.  I've been doing 131 for 10, 145 for 30 and 158 for 30.  At this point, the beers are indistinguishable from those made with a single 153 60 min. rest.  I intend to keep testing.

7

I'd be curious to know the mash time that G. Doss and Kai recommend for that temperature. You have to think about it along the lines of the Single Infusion being a compromise between the various elements of mash chemistry. That doesn't mean it's bad it just means that there is an inherent compromise when the amylase enzymes each have their own desired pH ranges and temperature ranges.

I can see 5 step mash like the one outlined in the Brauwelt article as semi-equivalent to a single infusion mash at a higher temperature when mashed for longer. If you truncate the various beta amylase rests in the previously posted diagram down to the half-life values of beta amylase at those temperatures, and assume a 1 C/min ramp between steps, you'd get the following:

144 F (20 min rest)
147 F (2 min ramp, 10 min rest)
153 F (3 min ramp, 5 min rest)
162 F (5 min ramp, 30 min rest)
171 F (5 min ramp, 10 min rest)

for a total of  90 minutes, including ramp times. Now if by mashing a single temperature in a "tweener" range for beta and alpha amylase, and extending the rest to 90 minutes, you get a similar fermentability from your wort, than that works out great. You lose a bit of control but in the end single infusion offers a compromise for those who may not have the means to step mash, or an SOP for those who can and just prefer not to.

Either way, it tends to be the same amount of time.

Greg's presentation is at https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/resources/conference-seminars/ .  You'll have to log in with your AHA member data. It was from the 2012 conference  Of the top of my head is seems like he did a 60 min. rest.

8
All Grain Brewing / Re: Cocoa Nibs vs Cocoa Powder
« on: July 17, 2017, 08:00:25 AM »
Does this product have oil/fat in it?

And who sells it online?

Brewcraft wholesales it so any shop that buys from them can get it.

9
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/the-methods-of-mashing/multi-rest-mashing


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One of the big takeaways in the chapter you reference is this..."If you use less well-modified malts, such as German Pils malt, a multi-rest mash will produce maltier tasting beers although they need a protein rest to fully realize their potential".  There just aren't that many less modified malts around, and certainly not domestic malts.  And keep in mind that what you quoted is a very old edition of the book.  Its even harder to find less well modified malts now.

10
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops - Bag or No Bag
« on: July 16, 2017, 08:26:29 AM »
Well I went with the 5 gallon paint strainer. Worked well but even with that, filtering when into the primary was frustrating, but  certainly less than if I hadn't.  I think next time will do same thing but not filter when moving to primary and by time for secondary most will had settled and easily avoidable when siphoning over.

thx again

FWIW, many (maybe most) people no longer use secondary.  If you just leave it in primary longer it will clear.

11
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops - Bag or No Bag
« on: July 16, 2017, 08:25:27 AM »
I used to use a hop spider but got tired of cleaning it. I let them free in the boil. Whirlpool is much easier for me.

For whatever reason I've never had much success with whirlpooling in my kettle. About once a year I think, "Hey, why don't I just whirlpool instead of bagging the hop pellets?" and then regret it an hour or two later! Ah well...

Andy, is your kettle flat bottomed?  I recently heard from a couple people that they had no trouble whirlpooling in a flat bottomed kettle, but using a converted keg with a rounded bottom made whirlpooling difficult to impossible.  Since that's what I use, I'm blamimg my whirlpool difficultis on it!

12
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hops - Bag or No Bag
« on: July 16, 2017, 08:22:56 AM »
I recently got a Grainfather connect, and I do hop additions using bags. I found out the hard way that loose hops plugs up the Grainfather very badly.

No kidding.  Even with bags I get a clogged pump filter more often than not.

On my "normal" system, I bag whole hops but not pellets.  Whole hops will clog the pickup tube in the kettle.  Pellets go through the pump and into the fermenter.

13
All Grain Brewing / Re: Cocoa Nibs vs Cocoa Powder
« on: July 15, 2017, 01:42:39 PM »
Is there a recommended usage with this product?


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I was told to use the same amount by weight, as you would with nibs or powder. I'm still new to this product, but once I keg my double chocolate oatmeal stout I'll get back with an update on how it turned out using the same by weight as nibs or powder.

Not necessarily.  I had a conversation with the guy who makes it at HBC since we were sharing a booth.  Basically, since it's aspetically packaged you can add it to taste and not have to guess at the amount.  He sid a half to whole bottle is the ballpark, but recommended tasting as you add.  Or you can just add it per glass.

14
All Grain Brewing / Re: Cocoa Nibs vs Cocoa Powder
« on: July 15, 2017, 01:40:07 PM »
I just recently happened across a product called "Cholaca" at my local brew shop I used it in my recent double chocolate oatmeal stout. It's fantastic!


t

Yeah, I talke dabout it in an earlier post.  I,ve been working wit it for a while.

15
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: mold?
« on: July 14, 2017, 07:43:07 AM »
I think it's CO2 coming out of solution.

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