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Messages - bboy9000

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106
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 11:16:44 PM »
I am beginning to remember why I walked away from this forum.
I took a brewing hiatus then so I missed that.  Sounds like Mark was treated like the LODO guys.

107
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 11:13:42 PM »
I am beginning to remember why I walked away from this forum.

Jim, this is healthy discussion about science which is the topic of the forum.  That's all.  The topic of the thread is about science.  These kinds of debate happen I the scientific field.  Note that I included myself as those affected by bias.  I didn't mean anything personal.  I don't have a preference for LODO or non-LODO.  I was skeptical of it at first and questioned Bryan and others frequently.  After Google searching it's obvious HSA is a valid concern.  The only question left is whether it is worthwhile on the homebrew side.

108
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 11:03:48 PM »
Good grief!

Marshall sells t-shirts. He's a vested interest LODO denier. Call the brewing justice warriors.

I am beginning to remember why I walked away from this forum.
Read my edit.

109
All Grain Brewing / Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 10:48:07 PM »

I'm not sure anyone is ever truly free from influence.

No one from GBF, Brulosophy, me or anyone is free from bias.  That is the limitation of experiments with people.  The reason I trust Bryan's experiments are from the pictures posted on GBF.  LODO does appear to affect clarity.


Quote
At least consciously, we've no vested interest in the outcome of xBmts

I like your site and experiments Marshall but don't you sell Brulosophy  t-shirts?  I don't mean this as a personal dig at you but by definition that is a vested interest.

EDIT:  Marshall I saw your post after that.  I was just pointing out you accused the LODO proponents of something you actually do.  Do I believe this affects your experiments?  Maybe subconsciously, but like Jim I've heard you many times on various podcasts and don't believe you are intentionally affecting experiments.

110
All Grain Brewing / Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 10:15:15 PM »
I agree with your second paragraph Jim.  I also relate to the third paragraph.  But even though it seems like a PITA now I'm going to try LODO to determine if it is worth the time "FOR ME." 

I think it will be like going all-grain for the first time which require planning and some extra time for the first few batches.  I will not spend money on extra equipment though.  Maybe on some minor stuff like extra gas and beverage line to do closed transfers post ferment,  but not on fancy brewing equipment as I love the fact I can use Denny's method for about $10 (getting Igloo cooler at flea mkt and plumbing hardware cheap).

As far as not tasting science in our beer I disagree.  We taste science whether we realize it or not.  Otherwise we'd be brewing like we did 6,000 years ago.

111
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 07:47:40 PM »
sooooo. 6 microbreweries might be LODO?
At least 30 from what I can tell.   Probably more.

112
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 04:03:42 PM »
I was wondering if anyone here knows the percentage of Pro Breweries in the US that are LODO? Also, what breweries in particular that use these techniques?

By volume of market share over 70% of beer sold in the US is likely LODO.

EDIT:  Is it safe to say breweries using a BrauKon system are LODO?  If so, dozens of breweries.

113
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: This is Belgium
« on: December 27, 2016, 12:08:44 PM »
No they go with chicken.

114
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 11:35:23 AM »
I will have to get a blind taste test of my own.  I have been talking some local brewers into going in on an experimental brew so we can judge for ourselves truly unbiased.
I'd have to go in with a few local brewers just to afford the DO meter needed for the experiment.  I trust the results of the trials Bryan has been doing on the GBF. I would like to be able to do a triangle test though.

115
All Grain Brewing / Re: Question on handling water treatment chemicals
« on: December 27, 2016, 10:33:49 AM »
Wouldn't they dissolve when the water is heated or is that too late?

116
Beer Recipes / Re: Belgian Golden Strong
« on: December 27, 2016, 10:09:58 AM »
This may be outside of what people care about or worry about which was a main driver in making this thread. This way debate on these subjects stays out of other threads so that people The aren't interested don't have to suffer through the spirited conversation.
Okay now I'm confused.  Isn't his the Belgian Golden Strong thread?

117
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 10:03:08 AM »
some of the current lodo methods are a pseudoscience of the professional low oxygen brewhouses.
It's not pseudoscience.   I think you are confusing the science with the methodology.  Pseudoscience would be,  "Beer gets stale because Ninkasi isn't pleased with you."

118
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 09:25:07 AM »
You can make professional quality beer in your home and never have any aspirations to "go pro". Reviewing professional literature, texts, etc. doesn't immediately translate to have professional aspirations.
That's not what I meant.  If you want to go pro you should read the literature.  That's doesn't mean those that don't want to go pro shouldn't.  Anyway, good to see I managed to derail the thread in my last paragraph.  Sorry I should have omitted that last part.  The topic is citizen science vs brewing science.

119
All Grain Brewing / Re: Water Advice for Imperial Stout
« on: December 27, 2016, 08:51:15 AM »
I'd use pickling lime instead of chalk or baking soda.   Chalk isn't easily soluble in water and baking soda may add some sodium ( I may be wrong on that).

120
All Grain Brewing / Re: Brewing Science vs. Citizen Science
« on: December 27, 2016, 08:39:16 AM »
^This pretty much sums it up.  I do want to point out even experiments in the scientific community aren't always conclusive and raise more questions than answers and often cause heated debate in the scientific community.  Scientists are often rejecting hypotheses but use those results to generate more hypotheses and raise more questions.

Yes, "citizen science" can be just as valid as "brewing science" as long as the citizen scientist recognizes the inability to strictly control all variables isn't always possible and can affect the outcome of the experiment.  Just note it as a limitation of the experiment and suggest future remedies and questions and don't view the results as a definitive answer.  I think Denny and Drew's do this in their Experimental Brewing podcast.

This raises another question.  Should home-brewers be concerned with scientific literature from the pro brewing industry regarding brewing chemistry?   In general, I think the answer is no.  Most home-brewers have more basic things to focus on to improve their beer.  For a more experienced home-brewer, yes they may want to focus on the scientific literature.  Of course, this depends on the goals of the brewer.  If the brewer goes through the beer quickly or doesn't care about competitions or wants to make the best beer with the least amount of expense and effort and have fun at the same time the. The answer is still "No."  If the home-brewer has all of the basics down, is making great beer and has a goal of going pro then the answer is "yes" consider the brewing science.


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