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Messages - bboy9000

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181
General Homebrew Discussion / lagering in keg, carb before or after?
« on: November 28, 2016, 09:28:45 PM »
I carb after.  I always assumed the high CO2 would stress the yeast or make them go dormant too early.  No science here just an assumption that too much of anything in an environment is a bad thing.

182
Equipment and Software / Re: Level Up Time for Fermentation
« on: November 27, 2016, 10:47:40 PM »
^This.  I agree with Pete.  I'd invest in deep freezers or fridges and some temp controllers and some kegs.  Conicals are a luxury not a necessity. Kegs are a luxury too but I believe will have more impact on your brewing experience.  That's assuming you already  have a good burner and mash tun.

183
Yeast and Fermentation / W34/70 vs S-189
« on: November 26, 2016, 01:00:56 PM »
Last month I split 10G of german pilsner wort between 34/70 and S189.  I conducted a total of 7 blind triangle tests, 3 of those correctly identified the odd one out.  The differences I noted were slightly more malt character in the S189 and the aroma of the 34/70 was slightly more 'lagerish' - terrible descriptor, I know...  Other correct tasters also commented on the aroma being different.
I also noted that the 34/70 dropped clear slightly sooner than the S189.
Did you record the qualitative descriptions from the participants too?  I'd like to see what those who didn't know what the experiment was about had to say about flavor and aroma.  Would be interesting for the forum to read.

184
Beer Recipes / Re: English/east coast apa thoughts
« on: November 26, 2016, 09:28:55 AM »
180 would be considered a whirlpool addition.  I do flame out as it takes me a couple minutes to get to 180.  Anything at 180 adds flavor and aroma which adds perceived bitterness.

185
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lallemand London ESB Premium Yeast
« on: November 26, 2016, 08:22:04 AM »
What if I used some Amylase Enzyme to get it to attenuate further?
If that's what you want I'd just use a different yeast.  Cheaper than adding Beano and easier than chewing your grain and spitting it into the mash tun or bag.

186
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Wort Aeration
« on: November 25, 2016, 04:36:44 PM »
I now only have 2 fermenters, but they are drained and filled weekly. Ask anyone who knows me I brew a minimum of once a week, EVERY week.
So jealous.  I wish I could brew that often.

187
Yeast and Fermentation / W34/70 vs S-189
« on: November 25, 2016, 04:35:24 PM »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties.
Actually the dry yeasts don't start out as the liquid equivalent and neither do the different brands of liquid yeasts.  They are often different isolates of the same strain which explains why they have slightly different characteristics.  Man I miss having Mark on the forum.

So 34/70 isn't based off of 34/70, nor is 830, or 2124?

BSI used to have WL 820 listed as 34/70 and WL 830 as W
206.

Apparently they now have 830 as 34/70:
http://www.brewingscience.com/PDF/prodlist/BSI_Yeast_Descriptions_Guide.pdf


188
Equipment and Software / Re: Brew guru
« on: November 25, 2016, 04:21:22 PM »
Happening to me too.  I've had all sorts of issues trying to renew my membership online.  Every year I end up having to call the AHA to renew it. I've called several times the last few weeks and never get to talk to anyone.  After a dozen or so attempts I finally got the online renewal but the app says I'm a trial member.  Bummer as I've missed out on some member deals. I do realize there's probably only a half dozen people working in the office.  Still frustrating.  Oh well.

189
Yeast and Fermentation / W34/70 vs S-189
« on: November 25, 2016, 01:31:02 PM »
Back on topic-  all of the yeast brands available to us Homebrewers- even if the same isolate- are likely sourced from different places so can have different characteristics.  The dry version from Fermentis is likely from the Siebel Institute yeast bank while Wyeast and White Labs likely sourced theirs from breweries.

EDIT: the "W" is for Weinstephan (duh) but still,  I'd guess the different companies sourced the strain from several different breweries likely accounting for the differences.  I doubt it has anything to do with the quality of dry yeast.

190
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« on: November 25, 2016, 11:12:39 AM »
While the dry do start out life as the liquid strain equivalents, they don't really exhibit the same properties.
Actually the dry yeasts don't start out as the liquid equivalent and neither do the different brands of liquid yeasts.  They are often different isolates of the same strain which explains why they have slightly different characteristics.  Man I miss having Mark on the forum.

191
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: W34/70 vs S-189
« on: November 25, 2016, 11:09:08 AM »
In my two lodo attempts so far, I've used dry yeasts in a SNS starter to get the yeast going strong and the cell count up.  Thoughts?
Maybe I misunderstood but you don't need to do a starter with dry yeasts as the the process was done for you in the lab.

192
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Wort Aeration
« on: November 25, 2016, 10:55:16 AM »
From my experience I am a slurry user almost always.

That was my point when I said what macro breweries do isn't always relevant to homebrewing.  I make a fresh SNS starter every time so the yeast have built healthy membranes and have been well-oxygenated.

Making fresh starters every time is cost prohibitive to pros.  Pro brewers usually repitch slurry so the wort into which the culture is being repitched needs oxygenation to allow the yeast in the slurry to rebuild sterols.  I don't repitch unless I'm going directly from one newly completed fermentation vessel into the next batch of wort in another FV.

If a home-brewer is repitching then an O2 wand and DO meter would be necessary.  If the homebrewer is making a starter or pitching dry yeast then oxygenation isn't critical and can even be detrimental leading to formation of fusel alcohols and other undesired compounds.   



193
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Wort Aeration
« on: November 25, 2016, 09:37:03 AM »
What you mentioned about the DO meter is true.  Over oxygenating is just as bad.  I'm guessing most that buy wands aren't actually measuring DO and are blindly injecting O2.

194
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Wort Aeration
« on: November 25, 2016, 09:33:31 AM »
If this was the case then big breweries would just pitch discarded yeast...

...Kunze outlines yeast and aeration in almost a full chapter.
I'm also betting that in addition to repitching slurry macro brewers are also filtering the heck out of wort transferring very little fatty acids and sterols to the FV.  Just a guess though as I haven't read Kunze.  Brewing is an obsession for me but I'm not going to spend $200 on a book.

195
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Wort Aeration
« on: November 25, 2016, 09:18:23 AM »
I did say "may" be unnecessary not definitively is unnecessary.  If there is an adequate amount of lipids and sterols already in the wort then the yeast don't need the oxygen as the cells will produce healthy membranes from those in the wort.  I don't leave all of the cold break behind in the kettle, I use yeast nutrient and pitch fresh starters.  Sometimes I'll throw part of an old pack of dry yeast into the kettle to provide the wort with more nutrients.  Combine that with a little rocking the carboy, my yeast likely has everything it needs without me using an O2 wand.  Unless the OP has slow or stalled fermentations oxygen is something he or she may not need to worry about.

While I sort of agree.. and it may be good for some ale fermentation's, I don't agree with lager fermentation's.  If this was the case then big breweries would just pitch discarded yeast and nutrients into the boil and call it a day. But they don't, and Kunze outlines yeast and aeration in almost a full chapter.

Practices at big breweries do not necessarily translate to the homebrew level. I always pitch a fresh SNS starter, which has been aerated.  Big breweries are likely re-pitching yeast from previous batches which would require oxygenation of wort. Some of this is also likely dependent on yeast strain, OG and style, which you mentioned.

I've never had a problem and I won a competition with a lager done this way (I did shake the crap out of the carboy for five minutes on that one LOL).   The one time I had a sluggish fermentation was when I repitched a month old slurry into a 1.090 wort but that isn't a normal practice for me.

My practices work well for my system and beer styles.  I wouldn't want the OP to go out and spend a lot of money on stuff that isn't necessary.  If he or she makes great beer with current practices then investing in an O2 wand and stir plate is just going to be money out of the bank.

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