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Messages - bboy9000

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Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Yeast starter? Psshhhhhh.... Whatever ;)
« on: February 27, 2015, 11:04:04 PM »

What pitching a larger number of cells does when pitching high gravity wort is allow for cell loss due to osmotic  pressure.

So how does less cell loss translate to quality of the finished product, in terms of flavor and FG?

Yeast and Fermentation / Yeast starter? Psshhhhhh.... Whatever ;)
« on: February 27, 2015, 09:35:15 PM »
I've made good 60/- and bitter by just pitching a smack pack but would never consider not making a starter for something with a 1.068 OG.  I'd be afraid of too much yeast character with such a low pitch but all of the Chinook in Arrogant Bastard may cover any yeast flavors up.

EDIT:  actually I didn't make a starter for 5G of 1.060 beer a couple of months ago and it tasted bad.  This was the exact same recipe that I won a local competition with so I know the recipe and everything was solid.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Yeast starter? Psshhhhhh.... Whatever ;)
« on: February 27, 2015, 08:04:28 PM »

I have been stating that White Labs vial has an enormous amount of yeast cells for quite some time.  In fact, White Labs entered the market with the claim that their cultures were "ready to pitch," which was believable when compared to an original smack pack.  Making a starter just gives the culture an opportunity to wake up and double or quadruple in cell count.

I thought a White Labs vial had 70-90 billion cells.  For 5 gallons of 1.068 wort wouldn't one need more like 250 billion cells?   Mark, are you saying this isn't true?  Or is the yeast from White Labs so healthy and ready to go that the cell count doesn't doesn't matter?  Or am missing something else?  Will there be 250 billion cells by the end of the lag phase?  If so, why is it considered best practice to make starters?

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 26, 2015, 09:55:15 PM »

IME, BRY-97 is more temperature-sensitive (with regards to cold fermentation) than other strains of Chico (and the like).

BRY 97 is not "Chico."  Chico is BRY 96.  The major modern brewery using BRY 97 is Anchor.  As I mentioned earlier, both strains came from Ballantine.   BRY 96 is kind of unique in the world of domesticated brewing yeast because it is a diploid yeast strain.  Most brewing yeast strains are polyploids.
Since reading your posts I've noticed there's all kinds of misinformation on homebrewing forums on the identity of BRY-97.  Most homebrewers on the web think its Chico or Pacman. 

Anyway, it will be some other batch when I get to experience BRY-97 as I pitched Pacman after 94 hours of no fermentation.  The 9 month old Pacman was slow to start in the 2L starter.  I decanted the liquid portion of the starter into another vessel 48 hours after pitching 200mL of old slurry, (it was slow to wake up) leaving most of the settled stuff on the bottom.  I crashed the decanted liquid and ended up with about 200mL of fresh yeast.  I didn't think it would be enough but it started fermenting the wort in less than 90 minutes.  After 90 hours of no fermentation from the dry BRY-97 that was nice.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 25, 2015, 07:02:43 PM »
Well after 90 hours and no fermentation I pitched some fresh Pacman that I grew up from 9 month old slurry last week.  I had active fermentation within 90 minutes.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 24, 2015, 10:17:26 PM »
Thanks Tommy.  I noticed the same layer and yeast ring on the side about 12 hours after pitching.  I didn't want to shake it as I've read not to aerate dry yeast.  I just gave the carboy a swirl so maybe I'll see some evidence of fermentation tomorrow.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 24, 2015, 09:16:21 PM »
I don't remember the "good till" date,  but Mr. Malty indicated about 70% viability.  I don't think my LHBS refrigerates dry yeast but the storage room is definitely cool as I've become friends with the owner and I'm back there often.  I'll let it be until tomorrow afternoon but if I don't see any changes the Pacman is going in.

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Is This Infected?
« on: February 24, 2015, 07:12:34 PM »
Looks okay but the picture is kind of low resolution.  Just out of curiosity, what is your usual cleaning and sanitizing process?  I prefer PBW or Oxyclean followed by Star San.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 24, 2015, 07:01:39 PM »

Did you temper the rehydrated yeast to pitching temps?

No, it crossed my mind but I never did this when I used to use dry yeast, like 2.5 years ago.  I rarely had problems then.  Maybe I should chill closer to pitching temperature the next time.  Thing is,  the instructions recommend just letting the yeast sit in the water for 15 minutes before pitching.

Yeast and Fermentation / Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 24, 2015, 06:42:00 PM »
Thanks for the feedback, that's consistent with what I've read.  But 72 hours?  I used Mr. Malty to decide on two packs.  At about 70% viability Mr. Malty indicated 1.6 or 1.7 packs so I rehydrated two in 220mL 90F boiled tap water.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 24, 2015, 06:09:54 PM »

Bry-97 is notoriously slow, but once it gets going - does very well to produce a fairly clean ferment. I have repitched out to about 4 generations - the lag shortens dramatically with a BRY-97 starter (harvested) at high krausen.

That's what I've read.  Have you used the dry or liquid version?  Or both?  What has been your lowest lag phase with this yeast?

Yeast and Fermentation / Who Has Experienced BRY-97 Slow Start?
« on: February 24, 2015, 04:41:30 PM »
I pitched two packets of rehydrated Lallemand BRY-97 72 hours ago (Saturday 2-21-15) into 5G of 1.056 OG wort and still no signs of fermentation.   I pitched at 63F but after 48 hours (yesterday afternoon) I moved the carboy to a room where the beer (still wort?) is now at 68F.  There's a layer of yeast on the bottom of the carboy and a few patches of bubbles on the surface, but nothing to indicate it has left the lag phase.  I've read about long lag times with this yeast but after 72 hours I'm starting to get uneasy.  I've been brewing for three years and I'm confident in my sanitation practices but this is concerning.

For anyone who has used the dry BRY-97, have you experienced this?  I think I can wait another 12 hours but tomorrow morning I'll be tempted to pitch some Pacman that finally woke up.  If you have experience with this please advise.  Thanks.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Hefeweizen questions
« on: February 23, 2015, 05:18:28 PM »
I brewed a hefeweizen last summer with Wyeast 3068 (the equivalent to WLP300) and used the same schedule as Ken, pitch at 64F, rise to 68F.  It was a 2L stater pitched at high krausen.  It had a nice balance between banana and clove, but still was more towards the clove.  My only complaint was it didn't have enough of the bready flavor that I like from German beers, but that probably had more to do with the grain bill.  I used 60% red wheat and 40% pilsner.  Next time I may use some Munich or melanoidan malts or maybe do a single decoction.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Mash temp and thermometer
« on: February 23, 2015, 05:01:41 PM »
I did some research (AKA Googling) and found a great thermometer made by CDN.  It's the DTQ450X.  It takes readings in 6 seconds and doesn't need calibration out of the box, though I tested it to make sure.  My friend who's a homebrewer likes it so much he bought one.  I like it so much I got one for my father for Christmas for barbequing.  Then, when brewing with the owner of my LHBS I noticed he had the same thermometer on his RIMMS system to monitor his mash temps.   I was devastated when I knocked mine into the flame on a gas range but at $20 I just bought another.  Here's the thermometer:

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Interesting 1056 behaviour
« on: February 23, 2015, 04:51:46 PM »
Wyeast 1056 is BRY 96.  There's compelling evidence that BRY 96 is the Ballantine "beer" strain that was used at the old Schalk Brothers lager brewery on Freeman Street.

NRRL Y-7407 (Siebel BRY 96)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 2
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Beer pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S renal partial sequences.
NRRL Y-7408 (Siebel BRY 97)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 4
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Ale pitching yeast
  Comments: ID from 26S rDNA partial sequences

Note:  G.W. Lange was the brewing scientist who deposited the cultures.

Mark, you've posted this several time in other threads and I find it extremely interesting.  So interesting I spent a couple of hours looking up information on the old P.Ballantine and Sons brewery this past weekend.  So interesting that I used Danstar Bry-97 dry yeast in my house ale I brewed Saturday instead of the ususal Wyeast 1056 (two packs rehydrated still lagging at 63F after 48 hours so I moved it to a room that's 68F).  I wish some graduate student would do some research and full DNA mapping on these yeast strains to determine where Schlak and Ballantine may have acquired these strains.

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