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Messages - reverseapachemaster

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How many of the Pros here have attorneys?

As a friend who has a brewpub says - "Your first hire should be your attorney. The second should be your accountant."

Of the smaller breweries I have interacted with, scant few have ever worked with an attorney. There are a number of brewery owners who think of attorneys as not just a luxury but a waste of money. That attitude isn't specific to brewing; it's common across small businesses and people generally.

Homebrew Clubs / Re: Not for profit, ein, or nothing?
« on: March 13, 2015, 08:20:04 AM »
I think you can become a 501c7 'not for profit' social organization without too much trouble. That would give you the liability protection of having a corporation, but the requirements are not too difficult. It's basically set up for clubs - like ski clubs, running clubs, etc - that want to organize events for members but are not trying to make money at it. The main requirement is that your expenses equal revenue each year so that you are actually not making money.

You will still need to incorporate or elect another limited liability organization through your state. The IRS does not and cannot create limited liability entities.

I don't quite see how Innovation Brewing would ever be confused as Innovation Brew Works.

Can guys with a JD comment on that?

It's a question of whether customers could be confused by the similarity. The standard is a generic customer rather than a beer snob. Would a generic customer, walking into a bar, really identify a difference between Brewing and Brew Works? I'm not sure they would, especially when we tend to discuss breweries by leaving off the brewing/brewery/etc. So it would be very easy for somebody to read about or overhear a discussion about one Innovation and mistakenly believe it could be the other. That might not be bad if both breweries are good but if one isn't then the brewery with the superior beers is at risk for losing business over the confusion.

What I don't understand is its only on there bumper sticker why the hell do they care not like it's one of their beers or label art or anything it's a bumper sticker tht prolly only people on Michigan know about.

According to their opposition to the trademark application, Bell's has not only been using the bumper sticker for thirty years but they have been using "Bottling Innovation" as an advertising slogan since 2009. If true, that precedes the existence of Innovation Brewing's use of the name in commerce. We don't get Bell's here in Texas so I'm not sure how much they really use that slogan but they say they use it and I imagine it would be easy to prove where and when it is printed on their advertising materials and packaging.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Decoction
« on: March 12, 2015, 08:15:25 AM »
If you are using an undermodified pils in that beer you might want to perform a protein rest (at least a short one) but otherwise I agree that you can do without the protein rest.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Brew Weekend
« on: March 12, 2015, 08:12:11 AM »
I might try to squeeze in a little brewing this weekend but I have a lot to do and probably won't get around to it.

I thought it was a challenge to a trademark application? Not a law suit, but it is before the Feds for a decision, so both sides need to lawyer up.

JD s can correct me.

Right. Innovation Brewing applied for a federal trademark and Bell's filed an opposition asserting that they have a preexisting right.

I've uploaded Bell's opposition here:

It's worth pointing out that this opposition was filed nearly a year ago. It's been in the trademark office's administrative review process since. It's sort of like a trial procedure but nobody wins money, just a federal trademark (or the mark is denied). It seems Innovation ran to the media this month to complain about it. What's interesting about the timing of the sudden media exposure is that it came on the same day Bell's asked for a discovery extension because they allege Innovation has failed to adequately respond to discovery and they need time to work out the dispute over the discovery responses. Innovation, it seems, ran to the media to try to pressure Bell's to back off. That suggests Innovation is intentionally trying to avoid disclosing its position and evidence in discovery as procedural rules require. So I wouldn't say Innovation is behaving the most professionally over the whole issue.

This is the future for every other state that saw its local craft industry grow faster than larger craft brewers could invade the market. The large craft brewers have a business interest in carving out space for their brand and battles over intellectual property rights is how that is done. The larger brewers will want to win these suits but even where they lose there are litigation costs on both sides to be absorbed. The larger brewers are heavy hitters in one of the fastest growing industries in the country who can afford to pay for litigation. Smaller brewers may not be willing to or able to absorb the costs of litigation in federal court which moves quickly (relatively quickly) in an area of law that requires a special kind of expertise that comes at a premium.

The best thing all smaller craft breweries can do is spend a little money now to properly protect their intellectual property rather than take the risk that they may not have to spend the money defending against intellectual property suits in the future.

Homebrew Clubs / Re: Not for profit, ein, or nothing?
« on: March 11, 2015, 07:53:25 AM »
You probably need an EIN no matter what direction you choose. You don't want to have the club filing taxes and other government documents under somebody's SSN.

Pimp My System / Re: Compact Fermentation Chamber Heater
« on: March 11, 2015, 07:50:54 AM »

On the reptile heaters, what is everyone using?

Personally I use the equivalent of fermwrap that is designed for use with reptile tanks. It's cheaper than fermwrap and more durable than the old brew belts. Wrapping a fermentor in it and placed in a dorm fridge allows me to get over 100F in there. It could be hooked up to a temperature controller and hung or loosely wrapped around a fermentor to keep closer to room temperatures.

Take a look at the products here: That's where I bought the reptile tape I use but they have other products that might work better for your particular purpose.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Is an IBU and IBU?
« on: March 10, 2015, 09:39:16 AM »
In my experience there is a difference. 50 IBU of FWH, 50 IBU of hop bursting and 50 IBU of early boil additions do not seem the same to me in the same beer. They are all good practices that have their place in different styles. I would worry less about the estimated IBUs to a recipe than how the hops are arranged in the recipe to create the best bitterness and flavor/aroma for the recipe.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: For those really small starters
« on: March 10, 2015, 08:53:11 AM »
That is a very clear starter.

Ingredients / Re: Pellets vs whole hops
« on: March 10, 2015, 08:48:23 AM »
I typically use pellets because they are easier to store. One reason some brewers prefer whole cones is because they claim the pelletization process applies heat to the hops which degrades the essential oils. I don't use hops fast enough to avoid storage concerns with whole cones nor do I have the space to store much hops. So for me the benefits of using pellets outweighs the benefit of cones.

All Grain Brewing / Re: BIAB Water Chemistry
« on: March 09, 2015, 07:35:53 AM »
Low ph would definitely be a reason why you would have low efficiency but not the only reason for it. If that was the only variable you changed for a process that normally does not have efficiency problems then the ph is likely the sole culprit.

At 4.5 I am not sure you would have any conversion at 4.5, at least not without hours of mashing at fairly cool temperatures.

To get to 4.5 you would have had to add somewhere between 50-100ml of 10% phosphoric acid. Check the phosphoric acid. Is it possible you have 25% solution or higher?

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: scaling down batch size
« on: March 09, 2015, 07:19:11 AM »
I assume that goes for the hops too?  I guess the wort concentration would be the same, so halving the hops would work equally well?  This leads to the question then: why are recipes always size specific? why not just say "pounds/gallon?"

Most recipes are designed for a particular batch size and when writing a recipe convenience tends to play a role in the ingredient volumes used. You are likely to find full pounds or ounces used in recipes rather than 2.3443 ounces. It's easier to buy and measure in convenient increments. People can scale recipes as they need it.

At homebrew levels you can generally scale from one size to another without problems but when you are jumping from a five gallon batch to a 15 BBL commercial recipe the mechanics of brewing at that volume changes sufficiently that a linear scaling does not always work perfectly.

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