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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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2686
All Grain Brewing / Re: first wort hops
« on: April 09, 2013, 01:14:57 PM »
One other thing, you want long contact time in of the FWH with the 160 - 180F wort. 45 minutes to an hour, with more like an hour being better. This is a similar time to what one does for a late hop stand after he boil.

Some think the hop oil compounds will react with the sugars, survive the boil, and then the yeast will consume the sugars. Don't know if that is true, but I have read that a few places.

2687
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Ten Barrel Brewing
« on: April 08, 2013, 08:12:57 PM »
Now there are 14 ;)
We need another visit!

2688
Ingredients / Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« on: April 08, 2013, 06:48:33 PM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.

So does anyone know where the "correct" recipe is? Or does he just add Amarillo to different points in the process?

Not sure how current this recipe is.......  Not really what started this thread either.......  But hey,  "Lets brew something"!!!


Pliny the Elder clone
(Russian River Brewing Co.)
(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.074  FG = 1.014
IBU = 100+  SRM = 8  ABV = 8–8.5%

Ingredients
12.2 lbs. (5.5 kg) 2-row malt
0.28 lbs. (0.13 kg) crystal malt (45 °L)
0.86 lbs. (0.39 kg) CaraPils malt
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) dextrose(corn sugar)
19.5 AAU Chinook whole hops (mash hops)
    (1.5 oz./43 g of 13% alpha acids)
42.9 AAU Warrior hops (90 mins)
    (2.75 oz./78 g of 15.6% alpha acids)
6.1 AAU Chinook hops (90 mins)
    (0.5 oz./14 g of 12.2% alpha acids)
12 AAU Simcoe hops (45 mins)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 12% alpha acids)
14.3 AAU Columbus hops (30 mins)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 14.3% alpha acids)
20.5 AAU Centennial hops (0 min)
    (2.25 oz./64 g of 9.1% alpha acids)
12 AAU Simcoe hops (0 min)
    (1.0 oz./28 g of 12% alpha acids)
3.25 oz. Columbus hop (dry hop)
1.75 oz. Centennial hops (dry hop)
1.75 oz. Simcoe hops (dry hop)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) yeast
0.75 cups corn sugar (for priming)

That is the first recipe given out, old.

More recent is this. You can also see the recipes in Zymurgy if you are an AHA member.
http://beerdujour.com/recipes/1pliny%20the%20elder%20clone%20pdf.pdf

Vinnie says Amarillo is used now. This might be close, don't know.
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/12/ipa-clone-series-pliny-elder.html

From Russian River. http://russianriverbrewing.com/brews/pliny-the-elder/

2689
Ingredients / Re: simcoe, citra and amarillo
« on: April 08, 2013, 04:47:42 PM »
I have no idea what they are doing. But when I talked to vinny several years ago he acted like the recipe posted online and made popular by the b3 clone wasn't what they were using "now". Heck, my understanding is that RR is using hop extracts for Pliny for bittering additions.
Hop extract is used to get more wort out of the kettle. The recipe he handed out at the Oakland NHC was for homebrewers, and uses 45 and 30 additions. He said on the BN a couple years back that he uses Amarillo in Pliny now.

So does anyone know where the "correct" recipe is? Or does he just add Amarillo to different points in the process?
Amarillo is late in the boil, maybe dry hopped. Search on Homebrewtalk, I think someone has a good idea of what to do on that site.

2690
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Ten Barrel Brewing
« on: April 08, 2013, 04:45:54 PM »
Just got back from my trip to Oregon on Saturday, which included a trip to Bend and 10 Barrel. My second time at 10 Barrel and have to say the beer is very good (as well as the food). Probably my favorite there after Deschutes.

Yes there are 12 breweries in Bend but not all the breweries were great. We hit up all of them (we were there for 3 days, so not all in one night). The best of the bunch: Deschutes, 10 Barrel, Crux, Three Creeks (in Sisters), and Boneyard. Good but not great: Old Mill Brew Werks, Silver Moon, Old St. Francis (McMenamins), Bend Brewing. Not so good (in my opinion): Cascade Lakes and GoodLife.

Just amazed how much the city as grown since my last visit just two years ago.
I agree with that, but I really liked the 2 lagers I had at Silver Moon.

2691
Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Ten Barrel Brewing
« on: April 08, 2013, 05:31:23 AM »
Before the NHC we spent a few days in Bend with friends who are now living there. We did the Bend Ale trail, going to all.

10 Barrel is their favorite, the beer was very good, food was good, atmosphere was excellent.

When we were in bend there were 10 breweries. Now there are 12. You need to make a trip there, if you have not.  ;)

2692
Going Pro / Re: Starting a brewery
« on: April 08, 2013, 05:21:17 AM »
I have been reading this for a few days and I will add my 2 cents to it.

Operating 7 BBL brewery is a full time job.
You need to brew more then one beer.
More beers you have more tanks you need.
You can fit brewing equipment, fermenters, cooler... into 1000 sq ft space. You also need to have additional space for supply like grain, hops, kegs...

Brewpubs are mostly where people go to eat. If you have 125 seats how much beer you will sell a week?
You need to have your sales analysis or at least to understand local market. If you are still not sure excise tax records are public. Check the close by brewpubs how much are they selling. I think in well run brewpub can sell 15 to 30 BBL a month.
Remember. Brewpubs make their money on food.

Now the hard questions you have to answer to yourself.
Who are you partnering with?
Do they have restaurant experience?
Are they willing to spend $0.5 mils on brewing equipment (may be more)?
Why just not to get someone else beer and forget the cost of initial investment and ongoing expense?

And again it is a full time job.

Good luck.
Agree with this. Need to say one local brewpub does >125 bbl a month on 7 barrel system. The brewer has 2 assistant brewers. They just went to a 14 barrel system. It is a big and successful place, that has plans to open a third bar area in the basement, which explains the bigger system. These guys work their butts off, and someone is there on Saturdays. Not a part time job.

2693
Beer Recipes / Re: APA w/Galaxy and ?
« on: April 05, 2013, 02:10:33 PM »
Horizon and Gala y for Galaxion PA. I have those, and plan on it.

2694
All Grain Brewing / Re: Hop Temp Question
« on: April 04, 2013, 09:57:26 AM »
I'm by no means an expert - but, my understanding based on what I've read is that you obtain your bitterness from the boil. So, you are most likely going to get some nice hop aroma and flavor but no bitterness.
You get bitterness if you do a stand or whirlpool at >180F. Iso_AA is formed, but at a much lower utilization rate than the boil. Pelican Pub Kiwanda Cream Ale is made with all the hops in the whirlpool, measures 25 IBU. I do a Cream Ale like that, and it does have bitterness, alog with good hop flavor and aroma. Just saying.

Some others on the board have done stands at 110F or so for flavor/aroma additions. I have not.

2695
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Why do YOU keg?
« on: April 04, 2013, 07:59:42 AM »
I can lager 8 kegs in my chest freezer. One reason.

2696
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lager diacetyl rest...now what?
« on: April 04, 2013, 05:11:49 AM »
Well I tasted my lager last night, about 3 months after brewing and it is pretty darn good! The diacetyl cleaned up quite a lot and I'm left with a really nice, amber rye lager. It's pretty amazing what yeast can do if you leave it to it's own devices. White Labs 940 Mexican Lager is nice and clean. Thanks for all the input, everyone!
WLP-940 stands out as a clean yeast when compared to other clean yeast.

2697
All Grain Brewing / Re: First Lagers
« on: April 03, 2013, 09:24:38 AM »
... and a sort of clone of Quiannanon Falls lager by Bells (like a Pils but with American hop like Crystal)...

Not to derail the thread, but what yeast did you use for this? I'm really liking the hoppy lagers that I've been brewing lately, and now I want to start to dial it in a bit. I most recently tried WY2007, but it isn't quite "lagery" enough for what I'm looking for.
WLP 835 Lager X, as I had a slurry to use. I do not know what strain Bells uses for lagers.

2698
All Grain Brewing / Re: First Lagers
« on: April 03, 2013, 06:51:17 AM »
Jim, lagers can be very rewarding after the wait. Once you have some success, they will be part of your brewing rotation. You might need more kegs, if you keg.

We have done a Landbier, Helles, German Pils, CAP, Vienna, and a sort of clone of Quiannanon Falls lager by Bells (like a Pils but with American hop like Crystal). Have a Czech Pils planned.


2699
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Brewing supply store startup
« on: April 03, 2013, 06:19:15 AM »
Contact the AHA, they have some background they can give you.

2700
Yes it does!

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