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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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2806
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: River beer
« on: September 04, 2014, 09:34:56 AM »
Transforming water into something safe to drink was the main reason for making beer for centuries.
+1

2807
Ingredients / Re: Darn Varmits
« on: September 04, 2014, 07:46:44 AM »
I planted a little barley in our garden plot. Once the kernels were getting mature, something ate it. Could be anything from squirrels to turkeys. Had to give growing barley a try but it was varmint feed.

2808
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Co2 tank randomly empty
« on: September 04, 2014, 07:14:50 AM »
Yeah obviously there is a leak somewhere since it went from full to empty. I think its just odd that it went with no visible leak pressure wise for 3 days and then right down to empty. Ill get a re-fill this weekend and check everything.

CO2 tanks are gas over liquid CO2. The pressure will stay high on a tank pressure gauge until the liquid has evaporated, then it goes down fast. Your time line says slow leak.

In addition to the soap or SS spray, as a last step crank the pressure up to 30 PSI, as you might hear the leak at that pressure.

For a distribution manifold or kegs under pressure you can also submerse in water and look for the trail of bubbles.

2809
Homebrewer Bios / Re: Jim Rosenkranz aka Redbeerman
« on: September 02, 2014, 06:43:06 PM »
Talked to you in Philly at the meet up at Nodding Head. Maybe more times, but the memory is hazy!

2810
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Roeselare
« on: September 02, 2014, 06:20:36 PM »
Good tangent. Can a bug pro answer his question about bugs eating the sac yeast? If they do, what is the point of racking off the trub to secondary? Especially if secondarying for a long period of time?
I am not a pro, but with these styles of beers my thinking is that everything you know is wrong (comparing to normal brewingpractices).

Conduct a mash that leaves a lot of starch. Use 3 year old hops exposed to the air.
Expose wort to the air overnight.
Put into barrels that are inoculated.
Allow Pedio to do its thing, but depend on Brett to clean up Diacetyl after the Pedio.
Allow a little O2 into the beer as it ages in the barrels.
And the bugs and critters will eat the leftovers from the yeast as the autolysis happens.

Compare and contrast to usual practice.


2811
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Roeselare
« on: September 02, 2014, 06:19:30 PM »
Good tangent. Can a bug pro answer his question about bugs eating the sac yeast? If they do, what is the point of racking off the trub to secondary? Especially if secondarying for a long period of time?
I am not a pro, but with these styles of beers my thinking is that everything you know is wrong (comparing to normal brewingpractices).

Conduct a mash that leaves a lot of starch. Use 3 year old hops exposed to the air.
Expose wort to the air overnight.
Put into barrels that are inoculated.
Allow Pedio to do its thing, but depend on Brett to clean up Diacetyl after the Pedio.
And the bugs and critters will eat the leftovers from the yeast as the autolysis happens.

Compare and contrast to usual practice.


2812
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: September 02, 2014, 11:14:28 AM »
This one on the main page is over the BJCP guidelines by .02 o;)http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/ag24-oktoberfest/

It happens.


2813
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: September 01, 2014, 04:59:54 PM »

Category 8b goes up to 1.048 OG. 8c is above 1.048. There's plenty of overlap on IBU and SRM so gravity is clearly what sets these categories apart.
Cheating or a lack of integrity would depend on the intent of the entrant. The only logical reason I can think of for entering a bigger beer would be a rebrew that ended up bigger, since this is for the second round. I like to assume people generally have good intentions (the first time, anyway- burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me) so let's go with that.
Either way, it tasted better than all other beers entered in 8a,b, and c so it won. Congrats to the winning brewer.


No way to find out OG in finished beer.

Beersmith has a tool for that:
"Backing Out the Original Gravity of a Finished Beer

This calculation, though rarely used, can actually estimate the original gravity of the beer using a final gravity measurement taken with both a refractometer and hydrometer. It is useful if you forgot to measure the original gravity up front. o Select "Fermenting wort gravity" as the calculation o Enter the refractometer reading for the finished beer (at room temperature - cool the sample before measuring) o Enter the hydrometer reading for the finished beer o The estimated original gravity will be displayed under "Corrected gravity""

I wasn't suggesting that judges calculate OG anyway. My point was really more focused on what I see as the core issue of the OP's point for this thread: the INTENT of the brewer who entered the beer.

A brewery with an expensive Alton Parr beer analyser can give you the ABV, FG, and OG from finished beer. That was done for some of my beers way back when.

2814
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 31, 2014, 09:56:58 AM »



....Having integrity means that one plays by the rules, even it if puts one at a disadvantage.  Purposely entering a bigger beer in a smaller beer category is not playing by the rules. 

  It is not "cheating" to enter a beer in a category where you feel it will be perceived best.

What comes to mind is something that was done by a couple of repeat Ninkasi winners. I know because ive heard them say it in interviews. Blending.

So if being 5 pts to high in OG is a problem, imagine back when there were no limits, entering 60+ beers and many of those were blended to present the best contender. What would the recipe for that look like? Clearly, its all about what is in the judges glass.
[/quote]

Please show me where blending or post adjustment is called out in the rules as being verboten. Gordon posted his recipe for a blended beer, the only thing ambiguous thing about it was "blend to taste".

There are some beers that are best made by blending. Gueuze comes to mind. Commercial brewers do it all of the time, to reduce production variation, or to make a new beer. Dogfish Head blends beers to make Burton Baton. Bells blends Expedition and Double ream stout, sticks it into a barrel, and the result is Black Note. Hey barrels are post adjustment, aren't they? A blend of your beer, residual booze you didn't make left in the barrel, and wood falovors.

Recently there have been discussion here on adjusting the pH of the finished beer to enhance the taste. Is that adjustment forbidden? Show me where it is stated that you can't do that before entering.

My $0.02 is at least specify what you did in the recipe. If it won, it won.

Hey, it is just beer, I will be picking some hops, enjoying the day, and going to a friends house to have some cask ale. Enjoy your Labor Day weekend everybody.

2815
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 31, 2014, 06:39:49 AM »
I just hope we don't lose another valuable contributor over this.

Our greatest strength is always our greatest weakness. 

The OP is right.  5 gravity points over, is by definition, out of style. Guidelines matter. It is exactly the same personality characteristic that initiates a thread like this one and previous threads in which I learn a great deal about yeast.  Details matter.  Detail oriented people care precisely about details.  The downside is what others may view is pickiness (or worse).

So I say we let the OP be who he his.  Even when it pushes buttons.  We need & value all kinds of persons.  We each bring something to the forum that is enriching.

Steve, I agree with this.

In competitions one can brew to style and try and hit all of the numbers, or throw something in and see what happens. I am more of a brew to style and hit the numbers guy, at least for my lagers.

The last time I was in London, many Bitters were showcasing hops like Citra and other US hops, Galaxy (AU) and other new hops. They were darned tasty. One would not do well in a competition, I am sure. The guidelines say American hops can be used IIRC, but at the level these were used in the finish I think they would get dinged. I need to look at the proposed new guidelines and see if any changes have been made for that.

One thing that Jamil Z had said in one of his style shows on BN was that his British styles did better when they were old, as that was the flavor the judges were usually looking for, as that was what they knew.



2816
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 30, 2014, 06:26:06 PM »
I've got a question.  Are the BJCP guidelines hard and fast rules or are they suggestions, i.e., guidelines?  If they are hard and fast rules, they should be enforced.  If they are guidelines, there was no infraction and therefore, no penalty.  It ends up being like the difference between request and demand.
Guidelines on how to brew a beer to style. Beers are judged to style. Sometimes a good beer can't be discerned to be out of style if slightly bigger or with slightly more bitterness.

If comes down to the brewer entering in a style he thinks the beer fits and will do well. Some beers push the limits in the NHC, but that happens in the WBC and GABF too. It is up to the judges to determine if a beer is too big, too bitter, too hoppy, and so on. No objective measurements are made in the judging process.

2817
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 30, 2014, 01:16:22 PM »
Having had fresh Fuller's ESB on cask at the Mawson's Arms, I would say that most BJCP judges would knock it down as being too thin and not enough caramel flavor and not enough hops.

The stuff we get in bottles is a higher OG recipe than cask. By the time it usually gets here it is a sweet caramel mess due to oxidation. That is what most will judge a beer against.

Ron Pattinson claims that John Keeling showed him a WBC score sheet that said the Fuller's ESB he had entered was not to style, and that is not a BJCP competition.

2818
All Grain Brewing / Re: mash rest
« on: August 30, 2014, 10:49:55 AM »
Are you preheating your mash tun? How hot?  I don't worry about the end temp as much as getting my starting temp stabilized.  Conversion is usually done within 30 minutes and yes I let it sit for 60 minutes just in case.

I spent several years preheating the tun, then had a revelation...if I just tracked how far off I was without preheating for a few batches, I could come up with how much hotter I needed to make the water.  Works great and I haven't preheated in years.


Many do it that way. Easy, it is.

2819
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 29, 2014, 05:24:09 PM »
Yes, it of was entered in the wrong subcategory/. It was judged with all of the category 8 beers, and it would not be a stretch to say that there were 8Cs on the mini-BoS for cat. 8. So it went up against ESB type beers there and won. Maybe there were even stronger beers on the mini-Bos table. It won.

There were some others that had me raise an eyebrow due to ingredienst or procedure, but they won.

Every year, same procedure.

2820
Ingredients / Re: Please stop me!
« on: August 29, 2014, 09:01:37 AM »
I have noticed that freshly picked hops have an amazing aroma that just isn't fully there when the hops are dried, and I mean freshly dried hops just a couple days off the vine. Fresh, undried hops are rarely used, however because of a reported grassy, vegetal, taste that I assume comes from the fresh cones. So I'm thinking that this weekend when I pick the remainder of my cascades I will pull open the cones and use tweezers to pull out the yellow lupilin glands so I get the hops goodness without the green flavor the rest of the cones will give me. I'm way too busy for this but I can't help it unless someone knows why adding this fresh yellow parts in place of a late hop addition won't work. Please tell me this won't work so I don't waste this time.


How do you know the that the rest of the hop doesn't contribute desirable flavors?  You've come up with a laborious, possibly useless, plan based on a guess that you don't even know is right.  Doesn't make sense, man.
I think you may have posted this before seeing my later post. I hope to try the whole leaf hops in a beer also so I'll hopefully answer my original guess about that. My evidence that they won't contribute desirable flavors is admittedly anecdotal: one beer I drank 3 years ago and what I've read. I think that the Brewer's Garden book said something unflattering about fresh hops.
Old British brewing books don't have good things to say about the quality of American hops. Catty.

Things change. Brew your beers, try some commercial wet hop beers, make your own opinion based on your taste.

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