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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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Ingredients / Re: Please stop me!
« on: August 29, 2014, 09:01:37 AM »
I have noticed that freshly picked hops have an amazing aroma that just isn't fully there when the hops are dried, and I mean freshly dried hops just a couple days off the vine. Fresh, undried hops are rarely used, however because of a reported grassy, vegetal, taste that I assume comes from the fresh cones. So I'm thinking that this weekend when I pick the remainder of my cascades I will pull open the cones and use tweezers to pull out the yellow lupilin glands so I get the hops goodness without the green flavor the rest of the cones will give me. I'm way too busy for this but I can't help it unless someone knows why adding this fresh yellow parts in place of a late hop addition won't work. Please tell me this won't work so I don't waste this time.

How do you know the that the rest of the hop doesn't contribute desirable flavors?  You've come up with a laborious, possibly useless, plan based on a guess that you don't even know is right.  Doesn't make sense, man.
I think you may have posted this before seeing my later post. I hope to try the whole leaf hops in a beer also so I'll hopefully answer my original guess about that. My evidence that they won't contribute desirable flavors is admittedly anecdotal: one beer I drank 3 years ago and what I've read. I think that the Brewer's Garden book said something unflattering about fresh hops.
Old British brewing books don't have good things to say about the quality of American hops. Catty.

Things change. Brew your beers, try some commercial wet hop beers, make your own opinion based on your taste.

Equipment and Software / Re: Fill a chest freezer with water
« on: August 29, 2014, 04:49:16 AM »
Could probably find some nontoxic stuff these days.
Propylene glycol is on the GRAS list, and is used in some foods IIRC.

Ingredients / Re: Please stop me!
« on: August 29, 2014, 04:41:30 AM »
The w ife and I will brew out haverst ale tomorrow. The hops go right into the boil and whirlpool. Last year it was a little grassy at first, with some time it became one of our favorites of the brewing season.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Newbie Malt Question
« on: August 28, 2014, 01:04:34 PM »
Please let me follow that snide comment with a big smiley. -  ;D  - I mean no offence. I had to look up attemperation.

I was not attempting to use a big word for the sake of using a big word.  Attemperation is a fairly common word in engineering, especially in the world of thermodynamics.  Refrigeration is applied thermodynamics.
It is also a word you run across in brewing, often reading about old British brewing technology. Saw this on a Fullers tour, it is part of the old double drop system they have for display (lost my picture of it), and the guide mentions the attemperater in the fermenter.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Newbie Malt Question
« on: August 28, 2014, 05:06:17 AM »
Bill, I recommend you take a look at this....

I think I'm going to get my feet wet using the above recipe/method.  Any more of this on the site?  I heard there are some videos worth watching.  How do I find all this stuff?  I see the vids at the top of this forum.  Do I just sort of look around here and there for them?

On the main AHA page there are many resources, beginner to advanced.

Using the handy dandy search function this was found.

There have been some threads about BIAB (as it is called) on the forum.

This has never been the land of the free when it comes to alcohol - look at the Whiskey Rebellion!
Alcohol is illegal on the Navajo Reservation, and as a sovereign nation they have their own laws and tribal police force. I obey all traffic laws on the big res.

Equipment and Software / Re: ball valve or butterfly valve
« on: August 25, 2014, 06:49:10 PM »
If you're using a weldless fitting, then sticking a butterfly valve on there would serve little benefit. As far as I know they don't sell butterfly valves with male NPT threads for that very reason. You would have to go weldless to triclover, triclover to butterfly valve, then to triclover hose fitting.

If you do a CIP with recirculating PBW after you brew, opening ball valves half-way (and opening and closing them several times) will get them clean, no need for disassembly.

There are also sanitary fully encapsulated ball valves that prevent trapping liquid behind the ball.

At a tour of Ale Apothecary in Bend OR, the owner pointed out butterfly valves he had on the barrels, those had NPT threads to that allowed him to run the valves into the wood. Those were a special item, but they can be found. He said those were from GW Kent, which made me laugh since that is only 30 miles from where I live.

Hop Growing / Re: 2014 Harvest
« on: August 25, 2014, 06:38:23 PM »
Soil is important, but soil can be amended.  Yakima is basically high desert.  The arid climate greatly reduces, if not completely eliminates the threat of hop downy mildew, which I understand is now a problem in Michigan.  Yakima's climate does not protect growers from powdery mildew and pests.  The downside is that agriculture in Yakima is completely dependent on irrigation.  The East Coast can get as much rainfall in one strong storm as Yakima gets all year.

You know what is weird is that I thought that the hop industry was driven west by hop downy mildew.  However, the industry was actually driven west by the "blue mold" (which is a regional name for powdery mildew) and economics.

The farms in MI have the local thing going for them, and it is good to get a beer grown with local ingredients (there are some barley farms and small scale maltsters too). The agronomics for a small scale start up hop farm is daunting, especially when competing with farms in the west that get twice the yield.

Hops were commercially farmed in Michigan a long time ago, and the molds and mildews forced the crop out. One of the farms on the Lelanau has their own registered hop, Empire. The story was that it was found in the area and was left from original go round. The strain was thought to be from Finland - so the story goes. I got some from a local pro, and brewed a batch. It smelled similar to Cascades, but the pale ale brewed with it has a black pepper flavor. Might be good for a Belgian next time I use it.

Pimp My System / Re: 25G RIMS Burner Help
« on: August 25, 2014, 10:25:43 AM »
OK, still more questions than answers.  Has anyone tried a rotary switch on the pumps to regulate flow or does everyone use the valves?  Wouldn't that churn the beer when it was not fully open?
I use a valve on the output. Doesn't seem to cause problems. The pumps are impeller pumps, so internal leakage around the impeller is what happens, as opposed to a positive displacement pump which does not have much leakage and are sometimes designed to close the side plate gaps with higher pressure (power steering vane pumps).

Hop Growing / Re: 2014 Harvest
« on: August 25, 2014, 09:35:56 AM »
Yakima has rich well drained soil - they grow just about everything in that valley. They drip irrigate. They also have long days as you note, and most of those are sunny being in the rain shadow of the Cascade mountians. There are now hop farms in northern MI spitting distance from the 45th parallel, the yield is about half of what it is in Yakima Valley. The latitude is important, but there are reasons the hop farming ended up in the PNW, as you are aware I am sure.


Beer Recipes / Re: American Mild
« on: August 24, 2014, 07:41:37 PM »
You might see what these guys can say, if they reply.

The American Pale Ale was wonderful at 4.7%, with a nice body and mouthfeel.

Hop Growing / Re: 2014 Harvest
« on: August 24, 2014, 06:37:25 PM »
Soil and climate matter when growing hops, but not as much photoperiod.  All of the areas that you mentioned except for the United States, New Zealand, and Australia are located above the 48th parallel, which affords growers even longer peak photoperiods.  The United States, New Zealand, and Australia all had to develop their own agronomically feasible aroma cultivars due to having shorter photoperiods.

Photoperiod determines if and how profusely a hop cultivar will flower.  If photoperiod did not matter, hops could be grown below the 35th parallel without reduced production.   South Africa developed Southern Brewer as a less photoperiod sensitive Fuggle, but they still had to use supplemental lighting.  They have since developed cultivars that will grow without supplemental lighting.

The reason why I know what I know about photoperiod sensitivity is because I attempted to grow landrace hops in my first hop yard, which I planted in 1994. The bines grew well, but there was little in the way of cone production.  In fact, Saaz barely flowered at 39 ° N.

I decided to plant cultivars that were from areas of the world where the peak photoperiod was close to that of 39 ° N (15 hours) when I planted my second hop yard in 2001.   I obtained AlphAroma and Pacific Gem directly from HortResearch in New Zealand because the Nelson region has a peak day length of 15 hours.  I obtained Kirin II, Shinshuwase, and Golden Star from OSU-USDA (it was much easier to request rootstock back in 2001 than it is today).  Kirin II, Shinshuwase, and Golden Star were developed as Saaz replacements that were agronomically feasible when grown in the Iwate Prefecture in Japan, which is located at 39 ° N.   All of these cultivars grew like weeds and produced nice cone sets at 39 ° N.  I would still have that hop yard today if I had not left the hobby for an extended period of time.

As an aside, California Cluster served as the foundation hop for New Zealand’s hop research program.  Almost every New Zealand bred cultivar has California Cluster genetic admixture.  The first two successful hybrids were Smoothcone and Calicross, which are California Cluster x open pollination and California Cluster x Fuggle respectively.  One of the major hop growing areas in California was Wheaton, California (home of the Wheaton Hop Riot), which is located at 39 ° N.

Yes, it depends.

Have you ever read the "Hop Atlas" from Barth-Haas? The wife got it for me through the interloan program through Michigan State, had to read it in 2 weeks and return. At $200+ it was a little spendy for me. It was pointed out that there were large hop growing areas south of San Francisco, around Sacramento, and in Sonoma County (the town of Hopland got it name form hop growing). Those went away when the land was more valuable for housing, or grape production.

This is in Sonoma County. Some pictures of the Kilns, the tasting is in a former kiln.

So from your post, get the right variety for you latitude and climate. Correct?

I know guys who grew hops fairly successfully in SC. I have talked to ones who said their hops died in Florida. The latitude can't be ignored, for sure - none are grown in the tropics.

Beer Recipes / Re: American Mild
« on: August 24, 2014, 06:21:12 PM »
Some thoughts on session beers I have made and looking at Ron Pattinson's book of recipes, I will through this out.

Torrified what will help a little, but not American.
Flaked maize has been in many session beers I make.
Invert sugar has higher sugars, and seems to give a nice flavor and fullness to the beer if the toffee flavors are not overboard.

Most British session beers are in the 149 to 152F range in the mash, but that is for the British Pale ale Malts. The hotter NA malts may work fine at 158-160 and give the desired results.

Thanks for the tips, Jeff.  Isn't using maize or sugar counter to the body that I'm trying so hard to produce?  Maybe I'm going in the wrong direction?  Although I haven't had a lot of milds, many of them seem to be very thin bodied.  I always considered that a flaw.  Am I wrong in that?  I have tried using some candi syrup in a low ABV beer, but other than some flavor from it, I wasn't too thrilled at what it did to the body.

I appreciate your suggestions!

This is something I've been wondering about myself. It seems most recipes I've see for British beers that are written by Brits call for relativly low to middle of the road mash temps. While recipes from US homebrewers seem to go with the upper range.
 I have a book Brew Your Own British Real Ale, by Graham Wheeler. All the mild recipes have a mash temp of 153 and the bitters are all mashed at 151. Many of the recipes also include sugar.
 Of course this could just be a fault with book, but I'm not so sure. It seems to well regarded on the Brit homebrew forums.

The ones I have had in the UK are on handpump or gravity, so there is that difference. Lower attenuating yeast may be another.

I will also say that one of the best Milds/low gravity beers I have had was a Haveys Mild while in Brighton, not so far from the brewery. I could not wrap my head around the flavor and body that was in a 3.0% ABV beer - served on a handpump of course.

The Pub / Re: California Earthquake
« on: August 24, 2014, 12:53:10 PM »
I heard silver oak and some other wineries lost quite a bit of inventory.
Saw pictures on the web of bottles on the floor there.

Hop Growing / Re: 2014 Harvest
« on: August 24, 2014, 12:52:06 PM »
Yeah, around the 48th parallel is great for hops. There are other areas that are know fro hops out of the 48 - 50 range. Soil and climate have an influence. Just saying.

Poperinge Belgium 50.856131, 2.724574
Worcestershire, UK 52.188203, -2.236402 Over half of the British hops come from the West Midlands.
Elbe-Saale DE 51.965237, 11.874112 Where the East Germans grew hops.
Riwaka NZ -41.079932, 172.996874
Crosby hop farm in OR 45.166756, -122.885460 Willamette Valley has a climate similar to the Hallertau
Bushy Park Tasmania AU -42.692972, 146.884307

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