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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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The Pub / Re: Will beer cans be the "Food Babe's" next target?
« on: February 13, 2015, 12:50:07 PM »
On a Bell's tour I saw the canning line they put in, a big KHS with a 30 head filler IRRC. They said that was selected due to low TPO and line rate, but it was expensive.

Cans are lighter and are easy to reheat and pour new ones. The bottles are one way these days, and we homebrewers are the ones that refill them with beer. The bottles are crushed and the glass can be reheated and pour again.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Why Am I Doing This?
« on: February 13, 2015, 12:08:56 AM »
The point was for a carboy that has 1/2" of head space.  Does the beer pick up oxygen when its filling in the carboy?  That was what I was asking.  Is the CO2 more important for the coverage while racking, or for the headspace after it is racked?


Ingredients / Re: 2-Row Bulk (Ordering and Storing)
« on: February 13, 2015, 12:06:00 AM »

The Pub / Re: Will beer cans be the "Food Babe's" next target?
« on: February 12, 2015, 06:06:30 PM »
I will always prefer canned beer if I have a choice of packaging.

Here's the antidote to the Food Babe....  The Science Babe

The Science Babe is the antidote for the Food Babe.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Hop Teas and other Hoppy techniques
« on: February 12, 2015, 03:30:02 PM »
My opinions... (ask 5 others and you will get 6 more opinions)

1.) I do not like the strategy of having the wort less than boil and above 170 for an hour... that is asking for off flavors.  10 to 15 minutes would be plenty. 
I have done this many times and I haven't picked up any off flavors that I can attribute to this. My hoppiest IPA has all the hops in a 90-minute flameout/whirlpool addition.

2.) I would add charges at 10 minutes of boil, 5 minutes of boil and 0 minutes of boil, and see what that does.... the charcter of adding hops is differet depending on the time you drop them in... and I think you need a RANGE of character to get the full hop effect you are looking for. Adding a bunch at one shot, give you a limited range of hop character.
I think you can get the full range of hop character from a whirlpool addition that you can get from late boil additions, and then some. If you want a range of flavors, then use a few different hop varieties.

3.) Compare finishing gravity of your beer to your favorite beer.  You may need to get your beer dow to 1.008 or below to get the mouth feel you are looking for.  (get the body of the beer out of the way a bit so the hops shine through)
+1 on this. Also, limit crystal malt and get at least 200PPM of sulfate in the finished beer.

4.) your more hops idea is probably a good idea.  I think you get everything out of the hops in about 10 to 15 minutes...once the stuff is in the wort, the green stuff is just taking up space.  (again opinion)  The hop stand you are doing at the end between boil and 175.... is a good thing, just not for an hour.  No added benefit for going past 15 minutes, and there are some cons that make me wrinkle my nose at the idea.
While I haven't heard it straight from the source, I've heard several mentions that Ray Daniels quotes the sweet spot for hop stands at 80 minutes. I don't know the specifics of the experiments and if it's universally applicable, but I have gone up to 90 minutes before chilling with good results.

I also agree big time that more hops can't hurt. Also, keep in mind that not all hops are created equal regarding oil content. One ounce/gallon of Citra will give you a lot more hop presence than 1 oz/gal of something like Motueka or Cascade.

The 80 minute figure came from an experiment that was done by Rock Bottom at their various breweries. That gave the most flavor and dry hopping was used for aroma. First heard of this in his talk with Randy Mosher at the  2009 NHC. Those used to be posted, but I can't find it on the NHC page.

Ingredients / Re: Pellet vs. Leaf Hops
« on: February 12, 2015, 02:48:00 PM »
As far as pelletizing the previous year whole cones, I still see no evidence what you say is true. I have an $11,000 hop contract and they are all from 2014 harvest. I found a few hops from the 2013 harvest, but not many. And I wasn't impressed by the price so I didn't get them. I would think that it there were so many whole cones on the market that needed to be pelletized that there would be a much better variety. But there simply is not.

I have heard about this practice from more than one person, one of which used to work for a major hop broker.  The reason why the end of last year's whole cone crop is pelletized is to increase shelf life and reduce storage space. 

While commercial contracts may state year of harvest, few hop brokers specify the year of harvest on their home brew trade products; hence, there is no way to determine if the hops were harvested last fall or three years ago.  I also believe that the home brew trade is still getting hops that are either culled by commercial brewers or surplus to their needs.  The best hops still go to the brewers with the deepest pockets and strictest requirements.  The home brew trade is at the bottom of the pecking order.  This dynamic can be seen at harvest time when the status of a cultivar that had a scheduled harvest date is changed to will not be available for sale this season.

I think that some of this goes both ways. With the demand today, some hops are sold out, and there won't be any left. Others such as CTZ, may have leftovers and will be pelletized or made into extract.

The brewers go to the farmers and select hops from lots on the table. They get first pick to fill their contracts, and some of those are pretty cheap per pound most years. The brokers have contracts too, and they get their selections. What filters down to the homebrewers in the LHBS trade is the leftovers.

As a side comment, there are some hops that are not exactly what you are thinking they are. Packages of "Hallertau" is whatever they have. Ron Pattinson has said that EKG is often a blend of the hops on hand. Every now and then someone asks online about very high AA on Hallertau or EKG that is outside the range for those, and one could guess how that happened.

Edit - Yakima Chief is running the pelletizer though out the year to meet orders.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Steady vs. Rising Temperature
« on: February 12, 2015, 03:27:20 AM »
It depends on the beer I am making.

Edit - I should say more.
Pilsners pitch colder by a few degrees and let rise to a steady temperature for 3/4 fermentaion, then do a D-rest.
American ales pitch cool and let it come up.
British beers I would pitch warmer and let it come up a little.
Saisons would be pitched high and slowly ramped up.

Ingredients / Re: Is German magnum a noble hop?
« on: February 12, 2015, 02:52:59 AM »
After I read that PU had switched to using Clusters for bittering, I became far less picky on my choice of bittering hops.

When did that happen?

The Pub / Re: Red Bull Disputing Old Ox Brewery
« on: February 11, 2015, 02:51:35 PM »
I have read that is the name of the road the brewery is located on.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Question about hop utilization in a hopback...
« on: February 11, 2015, 02:03:23 PM »
I am a very bad man! Matthew Brown's original work for the AHA REF is still languishing on my computer and has not been forwarded for inclusion in the REF information because I have my thumb in my a$$. Fortunately, you can get an indication of Matthew's work from his presentation at the Grand Rapids conference last summer.

As Jeff mentions, the use of a hopback did produce very substantial bittering. However, it needs to be known that Matthew's work included a bittering charge in the hopback during the transfer of the wort from the tun into the kettle. So there was ample opportunity for the alpha acids to isomerize in the kettle and contribute their bittering. So, there were no hops or hop matter in the kettle and there was still substantial bittering.

Yes, Matthew also did a split of the batch and used the hopback again to post-boil hop half the batch. Those at the conference presentation tasted both beers and they were good.

A very interesting use of a hopback.

Yes, I'll un-thumb myself and get that research article on its way to AHA.

That was one of those presentations that makes one go - What? Then you say - Got to try that! I need to get off of my duff and do that. Transfer through the hop rocket from mash to kettle. Use the hop rocket at the end and the counterflow.

The Pub / Re: Shot Across The Bow...
« on: February 11, 2015, 01:59:06 PM »
What is the over/under on how long Dick Cantwell stays at Elysian?

Ingredients / Re: Is German magnum a noble hop?
« on: February 11, 2015, 01:41:34 PM »
Noble hops are Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Tettnanger Tattnang, Spalter Spalt, and Czech Saaz. There are others sometimes thrown in, like Herrsbrucker, but the 4 above are not debated.

You missed Hersbruck Hersbrucker.

Galena is the mother plant for Magnum.  I like Galena more than I like Magnum.

No, I maybe spelled it wrong, but it was mentioned as a sometimes included. The first 4 are the classics, Hersbrucker, is sometimes called a noble hop, as are Fuggles, Goldings, and Styrian Goldings.

Ingredients / Re: Is German magnum a noble hop?
« on: February 11, 2015, 03:41:30 AM »
If you are going by strict terms, no it is not.

Noble hops are Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Tettnanger Tattnang, Spalter Spalt, and Czech Saaz. There are others sometimes thrown in, like Herrsbrucker, but the 4 above are not debated.

Magnum is great for bittering, along with German Perle and Northern brewer. Hallerau Tradition works in a pinch.

Use the Magnum for bittering and the others for flavor and aroma, the beer will be good.

Ingredients / Re: Pellet vs. Leaf Hops
« on: February 11, 2015, 02:12:50 AM »
I just got 7 lbs from hopdirect, 6 were leaf. Those went into a freezer that is hops, and one that is shared with food. Whole hops work well in my system.

Ingredients / Re: got my water analysis
« on: February 11, 2015, 12:18:34 AM »
Is being able to purchase RO water at a supermarket or in a WalMart store a Midwest thing?

Mark, I don't know where you are at, but around here the water is very alkaline and hard if from wells (my town), or moderate alkalinity if from the Great Lakes (next town to the east). Many use RO for making coffee, drinking water, and so on. There are plenty of roadside RO dispensers in the Rio Grande Valley and South Padre Island area too. Some parts of the US have water with almost no mineral content, others have a boat load.

My local brewery lets me get water from their nano filtering system. I give them a couple of bottles of beers I am liking, and sometimes they ask for a recipe, which I gladly give! Win Win!

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