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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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3466
All Grain Brewing / Re: Oktoberfest vs Alt bier grain bill
« on: September 09, 2014, 06:38:59 PM »
The thing to keep in mind is that in general it's only American versions of alt that include Munich.  That's very unlike Ofest.

Kai uses Munich:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kaiser_Alt

He's pretty German ;)

I think the ones in Duesseldorf go from low/no Munich malt character (Uerige) to very evident (Schumacher).

Bitterness goes from medium to very high (Uerige).

Kai's looks like it would make a Schumacher or maybe closer would be Im Fuchschen.

3467
All Grain Brewing / Re: Baltic Porter - did I just find Nirvana
« on: September 09, 2014, 04:47:10 PM »

Whoa that's a lot of acid malt...
I don't think it's too much, but I do question it's usefulness in a Baltic porter.
Depends on the water, and process. He added the dark grains at the end of mash start of batch sparge.

What was the kettle pH and beer pH?

3468
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Vienna/Octoberfest Maltiness
« on: September 08, 2014, 06:58:48 PM »
Yes, I have made an all Vienna Vienna lager, that was inspired by one Jeff Renner brought to a club meeting. It works.

3469
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: WY1968 for an Imperial Stout?
« on: September 06, 2014, 05:33:03 PM »
You should be able to get 9% or even more with that yeast.

3470
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: River beer
« on: September 04, 2014, 09:34:56 AM »
Transforming water into something safe to drink was the main reason for making beer for centuries.
+1

3471
Ingredients / Re: Darn Varmits
« on: September 04, 2014, 07:46:44 AM »
I planted a little barley in our garden plot. Once the kernels were getting mature, something ate it. Could be anything from squirrels to turkeys. Had to give growing barley a try but it was varmint feed.

3472
Kegging and Bottling / Re: Co2 tank randomly empty
« on: September 04, 2014, 07:14:50 AM »
Yeah obviously there is a leak somewhere since it went from full to empty. I think its just odd that it went with no visible leak pressure wise for 3 days and then right down to empty. Ill get a re-fill this weekend and check everything.

CO2 tanks are gas over liquid CO2. The pressure will stay high on a tank pressure gauge until the liquid has evaporated, then it goes down fast. Your time line says slow leak.

In addition to the soap or SS spray, as a last step crank the pressure up to 30 PSI, as you might hear the leak at that pressure.

For a distribution manifold or kegs under pressure you can also submerse in water and look for the trail of bubbles.

3473
Homebrewer Bios / Re: Jim Rosenkranz aka Redbeerman
« on: September 02, 2014, 06:43:06 PM »
Talked to you in Philly at the meet up at Nodding Head. Maybe more times, but the memory is hazy!

3474
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Roeselare
« on: September 02, 2014, 06:20:36 PM »
Good tangent. Can a bug pro answer his question about bugs eating the sac yeast? If they do, what is the point of racking off the trub to secondary? Especially if secondarying for a long period of time?
I am not a pro, but with these styles of beers my thinking is that everything you know is wrong (comparing to normal brewingpractices).

Conduct a mash that leaves a lot of starch. Use 3 year old hops exposed to the air.
Expose wort to the air overnight.
Put into barrels that are inoculated.
Allow Pedio to do its thing, but depend on Brett to clean up Diacetyl after the Pedio.
Allow a little O2 into the beer as it ages in the barrels.
And the bugs and critters will eat the leftovers from the yeast as the autolysis happens.

Compare and contrast to usual practice.


3475
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Roeselare
« on: September 02, 2014, 06:19:30 PM »
Good tangent. Can a bug pro answer his question about bugs eating the sac yeast? If they do, what is the point of racking off the trub to secondary? Especially if secondarying for a long period of time?
I am not a pro, but with these styles of beers my thinking is that everything you know is wrong (comparing to normal brewingpractices).

Conduct a mash that leaves a lot of starch. Use 3 year old hops exposed to the air.
Expose wort to the air overnight.
Put into barrels that are inoculated.
Allow Pedio to do its thing, but depend on Brett to clean up Diacetyl after the Pedio.
And the bugs and critters will eat the leftovers from the yeast as the autolysis happens.

Compare and contrast to usual practice.


3476
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: September 02, 2014, 11:14:28 AM »
This one on the main page is over the BJCP guidelines by .02 o;)http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/ag24-oktoberfest/

It happens.


3477
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: September 01, 2014, 04:59:54 PM »

Category 8b goes up to 1.048 OG. 8c is above 1.048. There's plenty of overlap on IBU and SRM so gravity is clearly what sets these categories apart.
Cheating or a lack of integrity would depend on the intent of the entrant. The only logical reason I can think of for entering a bigger beer would be a rebrew that ended up bigger, since this is for the second round. I like to assume people generally have good intentions (the first time, anyway- burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me) so let's go with that.
Either way, it tasted better than all other beers entered in 8a,b, and c so it won. Congrats to the winning brewer.


No way to find out OG in finished beer.

Beersmith has a tool for that:
"Backing Out the Original Gravity of a Finished Beer

This calculation, though rarely used, can actually estimate the original gravity of the beer using a final gravity measurement taken with both a refractometer and hydrometer. It is useful if you forgot to measure the original gravity up front. o Select "Fermenting wort gravity" as the calculation o Enter the refractometer reading for the finished beer (at room temperature - cool the sample before measuring) o Enter the hydrometer reading for the finished beer o The estimated original gravity will be displayed under "Corrected gravity""

I wasn't suggesting that judges calculate OG anyway. My point was really more focused on what I see as the core issue of the OP's point for this thread: the INTENT of the brewer who entered the beer.

A brewery with an expensive Alton Parr beer analyser can give you the ABV, FG, and OG from finished beer. That was done for some of my beers way back when.

3478
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 31, 2014, 09:56:58 AM »



....Having integrity means that one plays by the rules, even it if puts one at a disadvantage.  Purposely entering a bigger beer in a smaller beer category is not playing by the rules. 

  It is not "cheating" to enter a beer in a category where you feel it will be perceived best.

What comes to mind is something that was done by a couple of repeat Ninkasi winners. I know because ive heard them say it in interviews. Blending.

So if being 5 pts to high in OG is a problem, imagine back when there were no limits, entering 60+ beers and many of those were blended to present the best contender. What would the recipe for that look like? Clearly, its all about what is in the judges glass.
[/quote]

Please show me where blending or post adjustment is called out in the rules as being verboten. Gordon posted his recipe for a blended beer, the only thing ambiguous thing about it was "blend to taste".

There are some beers that are best made by blending. Gueuze comes to mind. Commercial brewers do it all of the time, to reduce production variation, or to make a new beer. Dogfish Head blends beers to make Burton Baton. Bells blends Expedition and Double ream stout, sticks it into a barrel, and the result is Black Note. Hey barrels are post adjustment, aren't they? A blend of your beer, residual booze you didn't make left in the barrel, and wood falovors.

Recently there have been discussion here on adjusting the pH of the finished beer to enhance the taste. Is that adjustment forbidden? Show me where it is stated that you can't do that before entering.

My $0.02 is at least specify what you did in the recipe. If it won, it won.

Hey, it is just beer, I will be picking some hops, enjoying the day, and going to a friends house to have some cask ale. Enjoy your Labor Day weekend everybody.

3479
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 31, 2014, 06:39:49 AM »
I just hope we don't lose another valuable contributor over this.

Our greatest strength is always our greatest weakness. 

The OP is right.  5 gravity points over, is by definition, out of style. Guidelines matter. It is exactly the same personality characteristic that initiates a thread like this one and previous threads in which I learn a great deal about yeast.  Details matter.  Detail oriented people care precisely about details.  The downside is what others may view is pickiness (or worse).

So I say we let the OP be who he his.  Even when it pushes buttons.  We need & value all kinds of persons.  We each bring something to the forum that is enriching.

Steve, I agree with this.

In competitions one can brew to style and try and hit all of the numbers, or throw something in and see what happens. I am more of a brew to style and hit the numbers guy, at least for my lagers.

The last time I was in London, many Bitters were showcasing hops like Citra and other US hops, Galaxy (AU) and other new hops. They were darned tasty. One would not do well in a competition, I am sure. The guidelines say American hops can be used IIRC, but at the level these were used in the finish I think they would get dinged. I need to look at the proposed new guidelines and see if any changes have been made for that.

One thing that Jamil Z had said in one of his style shows on BN was that his British styles did better when they were old, as that was the flavor the judges were usually looking for, as that was what they knew.



3480
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 30, 2014, 06:26:06 PM »
I've got a question.  Are the BJCP guidelines hard and fast rules or are they suggestions, i.e., guidelines?  If they are hard and fast rules, they should be enforced.  If they are guidelines, there was no infraction and therefore, no penalty.  It ends up being like the difference between request and demand.
Guidelines on how to brew a beer to style. Beers are judged to style. Sometimes a good beer can't be discerned to be out of style if slightly bigger or with slightly more bitterness.

If comes down to the brewer entering in a style he thinks the beer fits and will do well. Some beers push the limits in the NHC, but that happens in the WBC and GABF too. It is up to the judges to determine if a beer is too big, too bitter, too hoppy, and so on. No objective measurements are made in the judging process.

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