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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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3661
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 28, 2013, 07:37:18 PM »
that what denny and everyone else says on the base malt. And I'm not calling them liars, but I get a very pronounced toasty flavor that I can't get with 2l 2 row and English crystal.

Dunno what to tell you.  I can guarantee you that the info Jeff and I have passed along is straight form the horse's mouth.  They're very straightforward with their brewing...no tricks.
  Sorry Denny, i'm sure its good info. i just can't make it work on my system, i'm sure its just a difference in process and a 200 bbl system has to behave differently than a 10 gallon. Then being that big of a system maybe they don't measure out grain real exact (so many bags of this, so many bags of that) and instead of 10% its 6.5%, would make a big difference at 5 gallon system. But thanks for the info still.

I can't say for certain, but I think beers like Celebration are brewed on the 100 barrel copper direct fired system. The 200 bbl is Copper on the outside for looks, SS on the inside, with a calandra to supply the heat. More Maillard reactions on the copper direct faired system.

Edit - to be more exact, listen to the Brewing network interview with Steve Dressler he gives the recipe for Celebration at the end. Now I think he rattled off all of the details for 200 bbls. He specifies malt and hops in his quantities, up to the homebrewer to scale it down.

3662
Ingredients / Re: Sierra Nevada's water profile
« on: November 27, 2013, 09:26:07 PM »
You might find Chico water online. They do treat it with acid to pH=5.5 we got that information at Beer Camp, Gordon Strong wrote that up in Zymurgy and his book.

From Brewer's Friend
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles/

Chico, CA   
Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 Alkalinity pH
25 15 13 10 63 91 (HCO3) 8
Chico Water District

As to what they do for the different beers, and what the flavor ions levels are, well a company has to have some trade secrets. I posted a picture of the bags of water salts recently in a storeroom. They also add kettle salts.

This thread has the pics.
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=17187.msg217371#msg217371

3663
The Pub / Re: India Pale Lagers
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:56:04 PM »
The IPLs I've had were so close to well made IPAs that I have wo wonder what the point if an IPL is.  Because you can?

Pretty much. I've wasted my last two lager brewing seasons chasing the elusive "hoppy lager". In the end I've come to the conclusion that it's simply an IPA or APA brewed with a different yeast strain. Don't get me wrong, the beers were great and I'd probably do it more often if I had the capability to lager year-round, but it's no different than using something like WLP007 or WY1968 instead of Chico. It's simply a different yeast choice and will give a different fermentation character; a very clean one in this case.

FWIW, WY2007 (Budweiser) is a very good choice for this. It is the cleanest yeast I've ever used, but there is still a hint of that apple ester note that plays very well with American hops.
The WLP Mexican lager yeast is the cleanest yeast I have ever used, and it is almost too clean. Guess what strain Wolverine uses?

3664
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:53:41 PM »
When I last made a Celebration Ale - type beer I mashed @ 155F (never realizing that SN mashed @ 158F).  What I did then was to add a bit more CaCl2 than I normally would for a West Coast hoppy beer, realizing that Celebration has a pretty full,firm malt base. I wasn't trying to clone it but in terms of body and balance, it was pretty comparable.

this is another aspect to consider, there is more to a full malty mouthfeel/flavor than just residual long chain sugars. How does the water play with the hops? what level of crystal is being used? What's the carbonation level like?
SN says 90 base 10 English c60, which I have used, but I find to be syrupy sweet at those amounts even after adjusting to hit the right fg.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
their base malt is NA 2Row, Rahr or Great Western. English C60 is the crystal. They probably use a high amount of SO4 to get the finish dry, and they have lots of healthy Chico yeast to use.

3665
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:19:10 PM »
Denny, with your contacts at SN do they do a mashout of any type? May just be a difference in process.

IIRC, I think they do.  But I doubt that explains things.  I can ask them, but it will be a while since we're into Thanksgiving now.

ETA:  OK, went back and checked info and there is nothing to indicate they do anything other than a single infusion for this beer.  We I was there brewing an alt for Beer Camp, we did a step mash (at their brewer's insistence) but I don't recall if there was a mashout.  Maybe Jeff will have some info from when he was there.
i remember them saying they usually mash at 158F which surprised us. But with their base malt and system it works. Mash out? Can't remember. I do remember the first lauter stuck, and a half bag of rice hulls were used in the second lauter.

3666
The Pub / Re: India Pale Lagers
« on: November 27, 2013, 04:43:58 PM »
Wolverine State brewing makes an IPL called Gulo Gulo. It is hopped like an IPA, but is very clean tasting, and is dangerously drinkable. They mainly brew lagers, so something like an IPL is in their mission, and appeals to the must have hops crowd.

3667
Beer Recipes / Re: Hoppy Pilsner..... Maybe?
« on: November 27, 2013, 09:44:47 AM »
At the NHC I had a lager on tap during club night that got some good reviews. It was vanguard, Santium, and a lot of crystal to finish, dry hopped with a little crystal.

Bells makes Quinannan Falls Special lager, which is dry hopped with Simcoe. That was the inspiration for my beer.

3668
All Grain Brewing / Re: Bicarbonate HCO3
« on: November 26, 2013, 07:15:19 PM »
The alkalinity is what you want to pay attention to, and more than that the mash pH, not water pH.

Getting more Ca as in gypsum or CaCl2 will help drive the mash pH down.

One better alternative is to dilute with RO/distilled waster. Or use acid, or acidulated malt. Or lime to remove the Carbonates, but that takes some understanding.

3669
Beer Recipes / Re: Munich Dunkel Recipe?
« on: November 26, 2013, 01:04:11 PM »
Done with 6.5 hours on the clock today. Set up last night, milled the grain, did the water additions, set the timer on the bucket heater so we could dough in first thing.

3670
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Poor efficiency/very soft water
« on: November 26, 2013, 01:01:53 PM »
The Congress mash uses distiller water. The malt is milled to a fine flour. Most efficiency comes back to the Congress mash numbers for that batch of malt, IIRC.

Breweries with a mash press can equal or exceed the Congress Mash numbers. They also use a hammer mill on the grain, to make flour.

3671
Beer Recipes / Re: Munich Dunkel Recipe?
« on: November 26, 2013, 08:18:06 AM »
At the 158F Alpha rest. Going pretty good so far.  ;)

3672
The Pub / Re: A great beer story
« on: November 25, 2013, 09:00:05 PM »
Very good story. I have been to Bastogne, and did not know about the beer in the helmet story. I do know that veterans can find their foxholes or mortar pits out in the surrounding country side. Talked to a mortarman a few years back at a reunion that had found a few that he had dug, 40+ years later, with the use of some topo maps.

My FiL was in the 17th airborne, which helped relieve Bastogne, and afterwards were sent up to the North by Patton to secure that flank. It was cold, snowed heavily, roads were covered with ice. Lightly armed paratroopers, M1 Carbines and Bazookas, found themselves looking at 2 units of Tiger tanks that Hitler had sent in to regain ground and take Basogne. You don't hear much of that fighting, which some say was the fiercest of the Bulge, as the 17th was disbanded after WWII, and the 101 and the 82 have the division historians to tell their stories.

The 17th was in reserves in England, was brought over quickly for the Bulge, had no winter boots or coats. Bradley had a need for bodies to plug the Bulge. Those guys had it rough, most got frostbite on their feet.

The 17th went on to fight many battles, the biggest was operation Varsity, which was the largest airborne assault of the war. Paratroopers and CG-4A gliders were used for that. There is a Waco CG-4A in a Museum in Iron Mountain MI, if anyone heads through the UP next year for the NHC. Half of those were built at the old Ford Woody factory during the war, which was in Kingford MI.

Edited for spelling.

3673
Ingredients / Re: Post your water report
« on: November 25, 2013, 06:14:09 PM »
Beats running out for RO every brew day !

That is true!

3674
Beer Recipes / Re: Munich Dunkel Recipe?
« on: November 25, 2013, 05:32:01 PM »
This thread has been fun and educational. I have set up for brewing tomorrow, grain is milled, and I used Martin's Munich Boiled water specs. Will see if I hit the target pH. Doing a hochkurz double decoction, should be a great day to brew a lager.

3675
Ingredients / Re: Post your water report
« on: November 25, 2013, 05:14:06 PM »
Klickitat Jim's Ward Report
PH 7.8
TDS 125
CAT/ANION 2.1/2.2

Sodium 8
Potassium 2
Calcium 17
Magnesium 10
Total hardness CoCO3 84
Nitrate .3
Sulfate <1
Chloride <1
Carbonate <1
Bicarbonate 130
Total alkaline 107
Total phosphorus .08
Total iron <.01

How's that?

That is pretty good water, except for the alkalinity, and that is not super high. You could brew many styles by adding some gypsum or CaCl2 to get the Ca and flavor ions. You might want to use acid or acidulated malt for very light beers. Use the water program of your choice to adjust for the beer you brew. I'm jealous of you guys in the PNW, for the quality of your water (you don't have Portland water, but it is pretty good).

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