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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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Yeast and Fermentation / Unusual Lager Start of Fermentation
« on: February 10, 2013, 06:39:48 AM »
This has happened twice, once on a CAP with WLP833, and now with a Munich Helles with the WLP835 X strain. The wort has been chilled to 45F, pumped into the conical, O2 added and the yeast pitched. On the Helles I waited for about 5 hours for the trub to settle, dumped a pint, and then shot the O2 and pitched the yeast from 6L of starter. The lag time was getting to be long, no signs of activity.

So after about 40 hours I put 2 PSI of CO2 on the bottom port, and cracked the valve to blow the Yeast off the bottom. Fermentation was evident, and it has kept going at an active rate for a lager.

I assume that the yeast were all on the bottom. They had been going through the lag phase, but were not dispersed in the wort. What does everyone think?

The CAP last year turned out fine. I think the Helles will be OK to.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Looking for a good AG recipe book
« on: February 09, 2013, 05:40:05 PM »
I borrowed 80 Classic Brews and discovered most, if not all recipes are written for extract. Some negative reviews said the same things, the AG conversion recipe was not accurate and neither were the hops and yeast selection for the style. I don't know. It makes me wonder if several people say the same thing. On the other hand the overall rating is positive and two guys from a brew club I just joined  recommended it so bought it. Also bought the Scotch Ale, Barley Wine and IPA books from the Classic Beer Style series. Didn't buy the Stout book as it got bad reviews, too technical and chemistry formula driven. I have read "How To Brew" by Palmer and "Designing Great Beers" by Daniels so figure with all these resources, and this web site, a bad beer can only be attributed to operator error.
I liked the Stout book. What do you expect from a prof at UC Davis?

All Grain Brewing / Re: Looking for a good AG recipe book
« on: February 08, 2013, 09:04:53 AM »
I see a lot of "I haven't brewed this yet, but it is going to be good"

Yeah that is the internet for you.

Fred's site at least has beers that have won awards.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: The Mad Fermentationist's Top 10 Myths
« on: February 08, 2013, 08:24:10 AM »
But I feel like if you aren't counting your time you aren't really being honest to yourself. Saturday and Sunday mornings are hard to put a monetary value on.

I woudn't factor my time into the cost of homebrewing. Sure I may be able to make money during the time I am homebrewing, but I LIKE to homebrew. I certainly wouldn't pay someone to come over to my house and set up the brew system, brew a batch and the get it in the fermenters for me. Come check on it daily and keg it when it is ready. Those are things I enjoy doing on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

But, it's the time you put into it that makes it so special! (OK, we are back here again. I quit. Y'all know and any major economist worth his salt would agree with me. ;)

Years ago a deer hunter I worked with said if you added it all up, the venison was about $50 a pound at the cheapest. Yeah, I agree that my homebrew is not cheap.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: The Mad Fermentationist's Top 10 Myths
« on: February 07, 2013, 12:35:45 PM »
As far as my time investment, anything times 0 is zero. I do like retirement.

Not saying that I am worthless.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Looking for a good AG recipe book
« on: February 07, 2013, 10:15:59 AM »
Gold Medal recipes are also on the AHA recipe wiki.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Looking for a good AG recipe book
« on: February 06, 2013, 07:17:02 PM »
CloneBrews: Homebrew Recipes for 150 Commercial Beers (Paperback)
Also their 2nd edition

IMO, this is one of the worst recipe books I've seen.  Others may disagree.
When you look at that in detail, I must agree. The yeast selections are all wrong.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lager diacetyl what?
« on: February 06, 2013, 05:08:41 PM »
A couple of things:
1) You typically do not want to cold crash the beer as opposed to gradually bringing it down to lager temps.  You don't want to shock the yeast.  That being said, it's not the end of the world.  Note for next time. 
2) How long to lager?  Well, how much yeast did you pitch?  Did you make a starter?  If you had a sufficient pitch, you could consume in 3-4 weeks.  If not, I would leave on for 4-6 weeks to let the yeast finish their job cleaning the beer.  What temp did you ferment and for how long?
3) You can prime with sugar for carbonation or force carb when it is done.  Up to you. 

Hope this helps and good luck!


If you have done a D-rest and cleaned up all of the VDKs and such, you can crash it down so that the Stokes law thing is going for you.

Look at Kai's site ( and see the different profiles of temp and time.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: The Mad Fermentationist's Top 10 Myths
« on: February 06, 2013, 05:03:19 PM »
How about the big one? Home brewing saves money.
That one!

And my Aluminum kettle is has so much better heat transfer, because you know, this is just my opinion man, Aluminum has much better conductivity.

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: The Mad Fermentationist's Top 10 Myths
« on: February 06, 2013, 01:23:24 PM »
And let's not forget, in most cases kegged beer tastes better!

REALLY struggling to find an example of when bottle conditioning produces better beer than draft.

I don't buy it for sours or high-gravity, "ageable" beers. Unless you're trying to save cellar space or don't want to invest in kegs to age beers.

this is actually a question i have for all of those out there who won medals the last few years at nhc.  how many winners were bottle conditioned versus how many were keg conditioned and transferred to the bottle.  that is interesting to me.

One was bottle conditioned and one was lagered and carbonated in the keg. Glad to settle the debate.  ;)

Going Pro / Re: Product costing and overhead application
« on: February 06, 2013, 11:12:45 AM »
Don't forget that GM ran plants to make products that were sold at no premium or even a loss, as the jobs bank agreement with the UAW resulted in no savings if the plant were idle.

I had seen some breakdowns of which product lines were profitable, and if anyone asks why big trucks were popular in the 90s up until that bubble burst, does not understand that the trucks kept the whole company above water, by a little. It was clear once gas hit $4/gallon in 2008, and truck sales hit the skids, the crap was hitting the rotating airscew.

There are many other things that you know from being on the inside. It was often amazing that any of the automakers were making a profit.

There have been many books written on the automakers. I am not sure it has all been captured in a clear way. 

I will read those papers.

Ingredients / Re: Mosaic Hops?
« on: February 06, 2013, 09:09:25 AM »
What else out there for experience?  Blatz, did you use these yet?

Seems I read they were a bit like Citra, only stronger.  Not sure where I read that.
Or are they more like Simcoe?

thank you Dave Wills for making this available to the homebrew community.

Hells yes.   8)
Mosaic is like Simcoe without the cat piss to me.

Going Pro / Re: Product costing and overhead application
« on: February 06, 2013, 07:20:52 AM »
Very interesting - thanks. I suppose the other worry is that if you underestimate the cost of the triple then you might underprice it. A popular style that's underpriced would sell well, but not make you much (or any) money. That could ruin the business.

It used to be everything manufactured needed a lot of labor/machine hours, so it made sense to allocate your factory overhead to units based on how many hours you spent making it.

What you're describing is exactly what happened to the big auto makers. Some of the components they made in-house looked like they were profitable under their old cost-accounting system.  When the auto makers switched to activity-based costing, they realized those units were more than 30x more expensive to make in-house versus subcontracting them.

Basically, they had a few really profitable lines, and a lot of unprofitable lines, but their costing system couldn't tell which were which.

Around 2009 the Financial Accounting Standards Board introduced a requirement that you need to treat excess unused capacity as a period expense, instead of a per-unit expense (cost of goods sold). The automakers would have been able to avoid bankruptcy if they had had a clear idea of how much their products actually cost to make. Investors would have been able to make better decisions, as well, if they knew how expensive it was to have so many factories sitting idle.

Having worked in the auto industry for over 30 years, I can't agree with most of what you said. The reality was complex, and it was more than accounting that was the cause.

All Grain Brewing / Re: salt additions
« on: February 05, 2013, 07:54:24 PM »
just guessing if i am using the correct there a "food grade" gypsum? i am using the one that is used for construction...

Hopefully not from China!

Events / Re: Congrats to the lucky few
« on: February 05, 2013, 02:52:21 PM »
I see full conference registration is already sold out.  Amazing. 

Well, to all of you that are going, have a great time.  I went to the last two, but this it's GABF for me.  We may even enter a beer in the competition.

Pent up East Coast Demand!

Half the US population lives within a 10 hour drive of Philly, including me - we are in.

Mort - get on the wait list for the full package.

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