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Messages - hopfenundmalz

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4381
Schlenkerla Helles is similar to what you want to brew. They say there is no Rauchmalt in the beer. It is said to pick up its smoky aroma and flavor from the stuff in the brewery. If they repitch the house yeast they will get some smoke. Some say the filter gives a little more.  I just know I like this one a lot.
That beer is excellent.
Yes it is!

4382
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lager Temp
« on: December 02, 2013, 05:23:20 PM »
If you did a Diacetyl rest at 60+ degrees, and taste no diacetyl as the yeast have cleaned up, crash away. I go down to 32F quickly these days.

No Diacetyl rest, take it down slowly so the yeast can clean up. You might even pause for some time around 40F.

There are some temperature time profiles on Kai's page. I have been using F.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

4383
All Grain Brewing / Re: Water profile and IPAs
« on: December 02, 2013, 06:58:12 AM »
I talked to Mitch Steele at the NHC and they don't pay any attention to sulfate at Stone.  They brew their IPAs at 165 ppm of Calcium.

At 165 ppm Ca, there is a lot of some other anions in that water...and its probably sulfate.  By the way, there are several water districts in San Diego that have fairly mineralized (that means sulfate too) water. There is a decent chance that Stone doesn't need to add more sulfate to their brewing water.

If one takes the Stone tour they see the big RO system on the wall. They blend tap and RO for the brewing water. There are also bag of CaCL2 and Terra Alba (gypsum) on pallets. How much they add to hit targets for the different beers is something I don't know. I do know the tap water in Escondido tasted bad!

4384
Ingredients / Re: Sierra Nevada's water profile
« on: December 01, 2013, 09:05:04 PM »
It was a really good trip! Add on three days at Paso Robles, which means Firestone Walker. A tour of the Hearst Castle. Driving up highway one all day through the Big Sur area. Some time in Cupertino visiting friends. It was a lot of fun.


4385
Ingredients / Re: To stock up on "high demand" hops or not?
« on: December 01, 2013, 12:11:42 PM »
I have one and a half fridge freezers full of hops. I have been successful in not buying more this fall. If I need anything it will be what I need for a certain beer, bought at the LHBS.

Sometimes buying in bulk can be a false economy if you don't use those hops up in a semi-timely fashion.

4386
Schlenkerla Helles is similar to what you want to brew. They say there is no Rauchmalt in the beer. It is said to pick up its smoky aroma and flavor from the stuff in the brewery. If they repitch the house yeast they will get some smoke. Some say the filter gives a little more.  I just know I like this one a lot.

4387
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Poor efficiency/very soft water
« on: November 30, 2013, 07:51:42 AM »
DW, for the grains you have, the Munich is the only one that needs to be mashed, and it has low Diastatic Power. If you had those all together, the DP would be around 20 or 25, which is under the 35 often stated for conversion.

With the LME, and only a little grain that needs to be mashed, how far off were you?

4388
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 29, 2013, 10:58:46 AM »
I don't know of many breweries anywhere who would give a lot more detail than we have for this beer (if as much).  We have :        OG
                                 FG
                                 Mash Temp
                                 Hop Schedule
                                 Hop Varieties
                                 Yeast Strain
                                 90% 2 row
                                 10% C60

Clearly with a mash temp that high you would probably need to use some gypsum to dry the finish out a bit. I'm at a loss here.   :o
I'm not complaining about what info they did give, its great that they gave any, they didn't have to. Just here to discuss it. SN and everyone else have different processes, just trying to make the right adjustments.

As both Vinnie Chilurzo and Ken Grossman have said, you can have the same ingredients, but you don't have the equipment or process. You can make something like it, but not identical too it.
I understand this, which is why I was looking for more information on their process to adjust mine accordingly. the only reason I "try" to get it perfect is to learn more on making adjustments of process on my system (and its an awesome beer).

OK, understand that you are looking for those last steps to get there. Those often are the hardest. It is a long journey sometimes. Good luck.

4389
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 29, 2013, 09:38:49 AM »
I don't know of many breweries anywhere who would give a lot more detail than we have for this beer (if as much).  We have :        OG
                                 FG
                                 Mash Temp
                                 Hop Schedule
                                 Hop Varieties
                                 Yeast Strain
                                 90% 2 row
                                 10% C60

Clearly with a mash temp that high you would probably need to use some gypsum to dry the finish out a bit. I'm at a loss here.   :o
I'm not complaining about what info they did give, its great that they gave any, they didn't have to. Just here to discuss it. SN and everyone else have different processes, just trying to make the right adjustments.

As both Vinnie Chilurzo and Ken Grossman have said, you can have the same ingredients, but you don't have the equipment or process. You can make something like it, but not identical too it.

4390
Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Return of the kit
« on: November 29, 2013, 07:11:59 AM »
Welcome back!

4391
Ingredients / Re: Sierra Nevada's water profile
« on: November 28, 2013, 07:57:35 PM »
I believe Martin has done some work there so he might have some insights.  IIRC, they take the local Chico water, strip it down to almost nothing, and rebuild it.  Does that sound right, Jeff?
We were in CA for a meet up with friends in Oct, and Mrs. R said, hey we can make the Sierra Nevada Octoberfest if you want to do the driving. Of course I said yes.

We got there on Thursday, so we did a tour. I asked the guide what they do with the water, as the Water book was out out. She said that they have the course filter, remove chlorine/chloramine, and UV filter. I asked if they had a RO system, she yes, but it was not in use. My guess is they use that for beers like Summerfest if they need to, and the other beers are fine with the treated feed water adjusted with phosphoric acid to 5.5. Then add minerals for the beer being brewed, in the mash and kettle as needed.

The Octoberfest had great beer and food. We got to see Bonearama and Left Over Salmon play. The next day we drove to Santa Rose for a meet up with friends, who are more wine people. I did get to Russian River twice.

4392
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 28, 2013, 07:37:18 PM »
that what denny and everyone else says on the base malt. And I'm not calling them liars, but I get a very pronounced toasty flavor that I can't get with 2l 2 row and English crystal.

Dunno what to tell you.  I can guarantee you that the info Jeff and I have passed along is straight form the horse's mouth.  They're very straightforward with their brewing...no tricks.
  Sorry Denny, i'm sure its good info. i just can't make it work on my system, i'm sure its just a difference in process and a 200 bbl system has to behave differently than a 10 gallon. Then being that big of a system maybe they don't measure out grain real exact (so many bags of this, so many bags of that) and instead of 10% its 6.5%, would make a big difference at 5 gallon system. But thanks for the info still.

I can't say for certain, but I think beers like Celebration are brewed on the 100 barrel copper direct fired system. The 200 bbl is Copper on the outside for looks, SS on the inside, with a calandra to supply the heat. More Maillard reactions on the copper direct faired system.

Edit - to be more exact, listen to the Brewing network interview with Steve Dressler he gives the recipe for Celebration at the end. Now I think he rattled off all of the details for 200 bbls. He specifies malt and hops in his quantities, up to the homebrewer to scale it down.

4393
Ingredients / Re: Sierra Nevada's water profile
« on: November 27, 2013, 09:26:07 PM »
You might find Chico water online. They do treat it with acid to pH=5.5 we got that information at Beer Camp, Gordon Strong wrote that up in Zymurgy and his book.

From Brewer's Friend
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/water-profiles/

Chico, CA   
Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 Alkalinity pH
25 15 13 10 63 91 (HCO3) 8
Chico Water District

As to what they do for the different beers, and what the flavor ions levels are, well a company has to have some trade secrets. I posted a picture of the bags of water salts recently in a storeroom. They also add kettle salts.

This thread has the pics.
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=17187.msg217371#msg217371

4394
The Pub / Re: India Pale Lagers
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:56:04 PM »
The IPLs I've had were so close to well made IPAs that I have wo wonder what the point if an IPL is.  Because you can?

Pretty much. I've wasted my last two lager brewing seasons chasing the elusive "hoppy lager". In the end I've come to the conclusion that it's simply an IPA or APA brewed with a different yeast strain. Don't get me wrong, the beers were great and I'd probably do it more often if I had the capability to lager year-round, but it's no different than using something like WLP007 or WY1968 instead of Chico. It's simply a different yeast choice and will give a different fermentation character; a very clean one in this case.

FWIW, WY2007 (Budweiser) is a very good choice for this. It is the cleanest yeast I've ever used, but there is still a hint of that apple ester note that plays very well with American hops.
The WLP Mexican lager yeast is the cleanest yeast I have ever used, and it is almost too clean. Guess what strain Wolverine uses?

4395
All Grain Brewing / Re: Single malt and high mash temp
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:53:41 PM »
When I last made a Celebration Ale - type beer I mashed @ 155F (never realizing that SN mashed @ 158F).  What I did then was to add a bit more CaCl2 than I normally would for a West Coast hoppy beer, realizing that Celebration has a pretty full,firm malt base. I wasn't trying to clone it but in terms of body and balance, it was pretty comparable.

this is another aspect to consider, there is more to a full malty mouthfeel/flavor than just residual long chain sugars. How does the water play with the hops? what level of crystal is being used? What's the carbonation level like?
SN says 90 base 10 English c60, which I have used, but I find to be syrupy sweet at those amounts even after adjusting to hit the right fg.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
their base malt is NA 2Row, Rahr or Great Western. English C60 is the crystal. They probably use a high amount of SO4 to get the finish dry, and they have lots of healthy Chico yeast to use.

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