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Messages - kylekohlmorgen

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Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Brett Brux, secondary fermentation duration
« on: December 05, 2014, 08:40:09 AM »
Thanks a bunch dude. That's basically what I had in mind, but needed corroboration.

Acerolas do have pits, but I removed them and did a reduction before adding it in at the end of boiling.

Any Idea on how time would affect sourness vs funkyness?

As far as tasting, the beer is in a glass carboy and I've read and been told that breaking the pellicle is a sin, as oxygen might sour up the beer.

But at this point I'm leaning towards bottling and praying. FG should be very low, since it was under 1.005 when I transferred to secondary. And that was over 3 months ago.

Mort is steering you in the right direction.

I just wanted to add that the beer is 'ready' for bottling as soon as the gravity stops dropping. With brett in secondary, I'll take a gravity reading once every few weeks and bottle/keg when I get two or three constant gravity readings.

I certainly would not toss any beer without giving it a taste first.  If that's a brett pelicle it may turn into something wonderful.

This is my brewing motto.

Let it sit for awhile, taste every month or so. If it develops a nice character (or not), report back on this post!

One thing to consider - in the photo, I see that you're using a plastic fermentor. You can try to wash/sanitize,  but I wouldn't count on completely removing the brett. This fermentor (and all soft parts used: airlock, lid, tubing, etc) may infect future batches.

If this beer turns out well, KEEP the equipment and use it for sour/funky beers, or beers that you'll turn over quickly. If the beer develops weird/unpleasant flavors, pitch them.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Repitching Wyeast 3724
« on: November 15, 2014, 02:07:51 PM »
I found that the heat of fermentation would not increase the fermentor temperature - to step up the temp, I would have to increase the heating belt set point.

Anyone else have this issue? I'll continue to post updates - using the harvested slurry in a rebrew this week.

At homebrew volumes I don't think the fermentation is sufficiently exothermic to get that much warmer than room temperature. I always have to use a heating element for assistance.

My thoughts exactly.

This is why I stress the dual-stage controller.

The words 'free rise' don't really mean anything to me as a homebrewer.

Brewing today. Late start (3PM mash in) and it just started snowing!

The March/April 2014 article of Zymurgy had an article called "Homebrewing Vintage Beers" in which Patrick Dawson suggests to ferment at higher temps to create esters, phenols and fusels which with enough age will change into desirable flavors.  The author says "Many commercial brewers with vintage beer pedigrees keep their primary fermentation temperatures in the 80s and (very occasionally the 90s)." The only given example of a non-Belgian yeast fermented at higher temps is White Labs WLP002 (English Ale).  I'm interested in fermenting a Russian Imperial Stout at higher temps.  Any yeast recommendations?

Another example of how commercial process may not carry over to the homebrew scale.

It could be a number of factors (their house yeast has evolved to handle hot temps, fermentation size/pressure, etc), but what really matters is what works in your brewery.

For a dark, malty RIS, there are plenty of flavor compounds from kilned/roasted malt that will slowly transform into lovely aging characteristics over time (if kept properly). Even in a healthy fermentation, the high sugar content provides enough stress to produce esters.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Repitching Wyeast 3724
« on: November 14, 2014, 12:11:18 PM »
What does the extra conditioning time do with this strain?...

The saison has some 'rough edges' which mellow out after a few weeks of conditioning (around 62F).

I also get some alcohol heat and astringency immediately after fermentation which drops out during this conditioning phase. Thinking about it, the alcohol could just be from the relatively high temperature of the sample (76F-80F) and the astringency could be from a high amount of suspended yeast.

It also took approx. 3 weeks to reach FG = 1.006, though it reached 1.009 in 10 days.

I have a saison I just brewed with 3724 and 1/4 packet of belle saison...

I was concerned Belle or 3711, even in a small amount, would start fast and takeover the fermentation profile. Brett is slower to start in primary, but the strain I used provides a wonderful (but restrained) layer of complexity. The increase in shelf life and complexity with age makes it worth bottling.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Repitching Wyeast 3724
« on: November 14, 2014, 11:59:21 AM »
No experience repitching 3724 but I can tell you if you pitch it warm, like above 75 and simply allow it to self rise into the 80-90 degree range it will ferment quickly, without stall and easily below 1.010 and produce a great beer!

+1 to this.  Also, make sure it doesn't drop in temperature too quickly after high krausen.  If your house is cool, a heating pad may help.

For this last batch, I pitched at 67F and increased temperature by 1F per day until I got to 76F, then held at 76F for another 10-12 days.

I use bucket fermentors in a dorm-room fridge w/ a 2-stage controller. For heating, I use a heat belt - one of those thick plastic ones, not the cheap thin strip. Temp probe in thermowell through airlock hole. Bucket lid was loose to relieve pressure and simulate open fermentation.

I found that the heat of fermentation would not increase the fermentor temperature - to step up the temp, I would have to increase the heating belt set point.

Anyone else have this issue? I'll continue to post updates - using the harvested slurry in a rebrew this week.

Yeast and Fermentation / Repitching Wyeast 3724
« on: November 11, 2014, 08:00:24 AM »
By far - the most complex and authentic-tasting saisons I've made have been with Wyeast 3724.

But its a PITA to work with. Even paired with a 'finishing' strain (I usually use Brett), the conditioning time can be 4-8 weeks.

I'm doing some trials repitching 3724 (with a bit of brett) now - has anyone seen a drop in conditioning time after multiple generations?

I'm on the path towards a great 'house' saison, and I don't much care for the other available strains out there.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Stinky Chest Freezer Affects Beer Flavor?
« on: November 11, 2014, 07:52:55 AM »
I installed a CPU fan to help regulate temp in my chest freezer. It may help evacuate some of the odor in yours!

Nice work on the dairy refer - would love to see pics!

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« on: October 16, 2014, 09:05:56 AM »
I have a similar experiment going with De Bom and the Oud Bruin blend from Wyeast.

I pitched both blends in primary a few months ago and have just let them go (~65F in the basement). I didn't follow the De Bom recommended procedure because I wanted to compare the batches side by side. Also - pitching a mixed culture in primary and fermenting at ambient is my go-to method for sours, so I want to see how the blends perform with my process.

If this is your first foray into sours, I wouldn't over-complicate it. Brew beer, aerate and pitch blend, taste it in 6 months. If you have the ability, control fermentation temps during primary as you would a clean beer.

I wouldn't worry about the heating pad. IME warmer temps accelerate flavor/acid development at the expense of complexity. Low and slow (~65F for 6-18 months) has always produced the best beers.

You don't have to wait for the pack to swell, but you want them at the same temp as the wort.

No worries about storing clean/sour fermentors in the same space. Yeast/bacteria are all over the place, so if you're keeping out the local microflora, you're good to go. Infection doesn't come from yeast/bacteria jumping from one fermentor to the other - it comes from yeast/bacteria in the environment. Just make sure you keep the airlocks full of sanitizer.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: overpitching and attenuation ?
« on: October 09, 2014, 11:30:28 AM »
Wyeast 1968 is a highly flocculant strain, which is awesome for beer clarity, but not so awesome if it clears before completing fermentation.

I had similar issues with this strain, so I started slowly increasing the temperature after high krausen (1 deg F per day) - basically a diacetyl rest.

Slowly increasing temp. after activity peaks motivates the yeast to stay in suspension and complete fermentation.

Mort's on point - if temperature isn't controlled, temp will ramp up quickly then the yeast will stall and floc as it cools.

All Grain Brewing / Re: Alternative to lactic acid
« on: October 09, 2014, 11:23:23 AM »
Of course when you know the strength of the liquid acid, you can use Bru'n Water to calculate the additions of a variety of acids including phosphoric.

Somehow I've managed to miss that feature, Martin. But I started out with lactic and have always had good luck with it, ie., no 'twang'.  Good to know though.

I use the mash acidification tab as a starting point, treating my strike water and adjusting 10 min or so after dough in. Same goes with sparge acidification tab.

For me, its been dead on estimating mash pH. Another well-made tool in that toolbox.

If you have to use phosphoric, be safe. Use gloves and goggles. I like lactic acid for this reason - even at high concentrations, its much less harsh on skin.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Adding Dextrin for Brett
« on: October 03, 2014, 01:34:10 PM »
Depending on the hopping rate and ABV, you probably won't get much (if any) lactobacillus activity at this point.

Just as well, lacto won't ferment long-chain dextrins.

If you add sugar, brett will ferment it first.

If you add maltodextrin, brett will break it down to sugar, and then ferment it.

If you want acidity, you can blend in some sour beer or add lactic acid directly. A touch of lactic acid is nice because brett can convert it to ethyl lactate.

You could add a mixed culture with pediococcus, but IME pedio in secondary usually has a huge lag time (8 months minimum) and isn't worth it for the small amount of acidity you need in a brett saison.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Adding Dextrin for Brett
« on: October 03, 2014, 08:27:06 AM »
The saison is already fermented out, so there's nothing for the brett to eat.  I'm adding Dextrin so the brett will break down those long dextrin chains to continue with the fermentation...the reason I'm going this route is because I mashed at a low temp range to make an attenuative, low dextrin wort, for purposes of making the saison.  The souring is an experiment that I'm doing on 5 gallons of the split 10 gallon batch.

Brett will create flavors without fermenting sugar/dextrin. Actually, if you add sugar/dextrin, brett will make more alcohol, which will distort the side by side tasting at the end of the experiment.

Brett will metabolize other compounds besides sugars to create different flavors (acids, hop compounds, yeast esters, etc etc). Even at 1.000 FG, brett will continue to change the flavor of the beer.

Starch/dextrin are important in lambic because of the long lag time of pediococcus. Pedio has the ability to break down starch/dextrin, but it can take 8-12 months to reach ample cell counts and start producing acid. Brett works in concert w/ pedio, reducing diacetyl and turning lactic acid into ethyl lactate (pineapple-peach ester).

The wonderful thing about making a mixed-culture saison is bearing witness to its evolution. It is fantastic fresh and fantastic with age, evolving into different beers in different stages. Not only is adding additional fermentables unnecessary, it (IMO) takes away from this experience.

Trust me on this - just pitch your mixed culture and let 'er go for awhile.

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Adding Dextrin for Brett
« on: October 03, 2014, 07:32:43 AM »

Brett doesn't need dextrin to contribute flavor.

Think about Orval, Boulevard Saison Brett, Jolly Pumpkin beers. Huge brett flavor in beers that have been fully fermented by Saccharomyces yeast in primary.

Just pitch the blend and let it go.

Ingredients / Re: Medusa Hops
« on: October 01, 2014, 11:28:04 AM »

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