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Messages - johnf

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16
All Grain Brewing / Re: 100% Vienna
« on: March 11, 2014, 08:06:22 PM »
...the style guideline committee made a completely different choice in terms of whether or not a beer different than what was being described should be included as a classic example.

I find that there's quite a few listed classic examples that do not agree with the actual beer style. 

I often wonder if it's because head brewers and subsequently recipes change over time, or the style guidelines were really that far off when they were last revised. 

I mean I was graduating high school in 2004, and I'm not sure how many classic examples changed from the 2004 to 2008 style guidelines revision because I wasn't really interested in judging beers during college.

That is certainly possible but I don't think it is the case with Negra Modelo, both because it is an industrial product and because I have been drinking it that long.

Their are other really odd classic examples like Sam Adams Light in 1A. I would like to think that beer used to be very different.

17
All Grain Brewing / Re: Off flavors (lactose) with Rice Syrup Solids?
« on: March 11, 2014, 09:50:33 AM »
Interestingly, the creamed corn/DMS is acceptable under some lager styles (2C, for example), but too much is a problem according to BJCP guidelines, evidently.

It is at least allowed in 1A-1E, 2A, 2C, and 6A. It is required or expected (however you want to phrase that) in a few of those.

18
All Grain Brewing / Re: 100% Vienna
« on: March 11, 2014, 09:43:15 AM »
Reading the guidelines calls for "light reddish amber to copper color." How does Negra modelo fit this description? I've brewed 100% Vienna Vienna Lagers that hit the light reddish amber (a decoction darkens a bit). For that matter I've brewed a Munich with 100% dark Munich that made an award winner.

To add to the confusion, the brewer bills Negra Modelo as a Dunkel, even though it's really just a dark Vienna.

It's really a Dark American Lager in BJCP terms if you are considering sensory characteristics, ingredients, and production methods rather than tenuous historical links.

Shiner Bock is as much a Traditional Bock as Negra Modelo is a Vienna Lager. For that matter Warsteiner Dunkle (which is at least all malt) is more of a Munich Dunkel than Negra Modelo is a Vienna Lager but in that case the style guideline committee made a completely different choice in terms of whether or not a beer different than what was being described should be included as a classic example. I would argue the inclusion of Negra Modelo is the bad choice and the exclusion of Warsteiner Dunkle is the good choice but they are wildly different choices.

19
Beer Travel / Re: San Diego in May
« on: March 07, 2014, 03:19:41 PM »
I am a big fan of Hamilton's which would not be a bad cab ride. There are several other places in the same vicinity including the Toronado.

If you like IPAs I would beg, borrow, or steal a ride to Alpine. It's not crazy far but on the scale of Escondido so it is not going to be a fun cab fare.

20
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Where to order Pliny
« on: March 07, 2014, 09:04:18 AM »
It's only illegal through the post office.  There is no law against using UPS, DHL, or FEdex.

While it may not be illegal, each company has their own policies that prohibit person to person alcohol shipments.

http://www.ups.com/wine
http://www.fedex.com/us/developer/product/WebServices/MyWebHelp/Services/Options/c_AlcoholShipping-2.html

That's definitely correct although I doubt I am the only person who has ignored those policies many times.

Viewed within the context of the original post, there are certainly companies that ship beer legally and with the full knowledge and approval of the shipping service within the United States.

21
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Bias in BJCP judging?
« on: March 06, 2014, 05:02:38 PM »
Are style guides available during the tasting exam?   My recall is still fairly good, but it isn't what it used to be when I was younger.  My concerns lie in the areas of acceptable carbonation levels and mouthfeel.   It never really dawned me until I reviewed the style guide as a whole that the subcategories are ordered by body, from lightest to heaviest.

For information you plan to memorize by rote, I highly recommend preparing flashcards and memorizing them in at most the last three weeks prior to the exam (I believe rote memorization work farther out than that is a poor use of time) using the Leitner system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitner_system

I think for the tasting exam you are looking at 95% understanding vs 5% memorization. For the essay exam it might be more like 80/20 (some people might put more focus on memorization, but I believe they are unlikely to do very well).

22
All Grain Brewing / Re: 100% Vienna
« on: March 04, 2014, 09:48:27 AM »
Bohemia is the beer some people argue should be a classic example of CAP.

Negra Modelo is a BJCP classic example for Vienna Lager, as are a number of US craft brewery re-imaginings.

In my opinion the BJCP category 3 is a bit of a mess. Consider 6 beers.

1. The beer Dreher made in Vienna. This is historical Vienna lager.
2. The beer Sedylmeyer made at Spaten. This is historical amber maerzen. Note that 1 and 2 were intended to be the same style and that at some point in history 2 was associated with Oktoberfest (the event).
3. Modern Oktoberfest beer. This is paler and stronger than amber maerzen.
4. Modern amber maerzen, these are exported to the US (or brewed in the US) as Oktoberfest beers.
5. Negra Modelo. This is a pale adjunct lager colored to be amber. This shares a historical tie with beer 1 via Santiago Graf.
6. Modern Vienna lager. There is no direct lineage to 1, these are recent re-imaginings by craft breweries.

BJCP category 3 attempts to differentiate 1 and 2 (which are the two most similar of the 6) while reconciling 1, 5, and 6 and separately reconciling 2, 4, and 7.

This is how you get two styles with nearly identical numerical and sensory descriptions and both having idiosyncratic classic examples.

23
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Where to order Pliny
« on: March 03, 2014, 08:19:48 PM »
Elder

http://beerpulse.com/2013/07/30-online-links-where-you-can-buy-alpine-beer-co-and-russian-river-at-this-very-moment/

I have not used any of those stores. I have ordered a lot of beer (including Pliny the Elder) from Bine and Vine, but they no longer carry Russian River.

Younger?

Find a friend in Santa Rosa with a time machine and send him back to 2010.

Note: these sites are only going to ship beer to states which have a reciprocal agreement with their state.

24
I thought about this and never tried it a while back. One of the ideas I had was to try activated charcoal filtration. That would certainly remove color but I wasn't sure if it would selectively remove more or less color than all of the non-color stuff I wanted to keep.

Reading about the attempts to make clear coffee and stock I would assume this has been tried and must not be effective if people are using relatively more complicated techniques.

The second idea I had, which might still be worth trying, is to infuse ethanol rather than water. This would obviously not work for making stock or coffee so it isn't worth excluding based on the logic above. I still sort of suspect this might be effective at selectively infusing aromatic compounds rather than color but I haven't tried it.

I have steeped colored stuff in ethanol and the color is extracted as well. Perhaps if you evaporated the ethanol and passed it through your roasted grains in vapor form but that raises legality issues I think (perhaps not if you start with high percentage ethanol and don't concentrate it but that's above my pay grade)

Right, but extracting in water extracts color is well. If the ethanol extracts less color per aroma/flavor then it would better serve the goal of making a pale stout than a water extraction.

25
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Bias in BJCP judging?
« on: March 03, 2014, 12:36:02 PM »
From what I witnessed today, I can honestly say that it is difficult for BCJP judges remain unbiased through an entire flight.  The lead judge has a huge amount of control on the final score of a beer, and his/her biases do impact a beer's final score.  For example, a lead judge with whom I worked in one flight definitely had a bias against beers that were bottled from a soda keg.   I witnessed another table score every beer in 8C lower than every beer in 9C (both styles were grouped into the same flight).  That situation is statistically impossible without bias.

How many 8Cs were there and how many 9Cs were there. Probably not many if the categories were combined. I think you are taking some pretty egregious liberties with the word "impossible".

I do agree there are a lot false positives on acetaldehyde. I do not think this is at all limited to the BJCP. Budweiser is the perfect example of this. It does not have above threshold acetaldehyde and yet most people who know the word acetaldehyde think it does because the word is overassociated with apple aroma.

The observation about relative scoring of 8C and 9C beers strikes me as typical lack of intuition about probabilities combined with hyperbole and best and data mining at worse. If you go into a situation with the intention of observing something that validates your beliefs, you probably will.

26
I thought about this and never tried it a while back. One of the ideas I had was to try activated charcoal filtration. That would certainly remove color but I wasn't sure if it would selectively remove more or less color than all of the non-color stuff I wanted to keep.

Reading about the attempts to make clear coffee and stock I would assume this has been tried and must not be effective if people are using relatively more complicated techniques.

The second idea I had, which might still be worth trying, is to infuse ethanol rather than water. This would obviously not work for making stock or coffee so it isn't worth excluding based on the logic above. I still sort of suspect this might be effective at selectively infusing aromatic compounds rather than color but I haven't tried it.

27
I wonder if anyone has ever entered a category 1 in a Sam Adams bottle with a blotted out Sam Adams cap? Would really make you wonder huh? Especially if it was like a 49 point beer...
The Boston Lager would get dinged as being out of style in cat 1.

As would Sam Adams Light, which is essentially Boston Lager Light, but it is humorously listed as a commercial example in 1A.

28
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: NHC Newb Question - bottle limitations
« on: February 20, 2014, 03:51:00 PM »
Too bad. They allow 16 oz but not 16.9? I thought it was more about the bottle fitting in a standard case. I thought the German 500s did fit.

They're great bottles though. Double Mountain in Hood River uses them so I have several stored up.

A number of Belgian beers (Saison Dupont, St. Bernardus, Rochefort among them) come in unmarked 33 cl bottles that are very heavy and very close in size and shape to 12 oz. long-necks (ISB).

29
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: APAs...AIPAs...Comp Yeast Strains?
« on: February 23, 2012, 02:49:54 PM »
My personal preference and what I use in competition, which are always the same thing, is 1272.

30
Ingredients / Re: German Water Hardness
« on: February 09, 2012, 08:20:32 AM »
Tried google translate and I am still not clear. Also I have never been quite straight on the German terminology. Is this carbonate hardness (alkalinity), calcium hardness (hardness proper), or the two added together or something?

If it includes alkalinity it is interesting how it differs from the US where we have one big fat high alkalinity region in the middle. You could have breweries 10 miles apart with very different water based on that map.

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