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Messages - klickitat jim

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1186
All Grain Brewing / Re: Infusion Step mashing and pH management
« on: December 29, 2015, 07:33:09 PM »
I would calculate and add just like a normal mash n sparge. Then when you need to do a step, use the already adjusted sparge water. Am I guaranteeing it will be 100% accurate right down the line? No. But it would be very close and has the least chance for failure compared to a bunch of convoluted calculations. Remember the mash is staying put. So it wont need much adjusting. But you will have the same total volume as with a single infusion. So ought to work.

Having said that, are you trying the steps just to see what happens? I did that very recently and have been publishing the results along the way. Its a fun experiment which is leading me to a fairly strong opinion that with modern malts its hard to beat a single infusion and using the vast malt selection we have as a way to drive flavors, and adjuncts and temp for body control. Dig in though! There's nothing like learning first hand and not vehemently attacking something you've never tried. Its always better to say "I have found" rather than "I have read".

1187
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« on: December 29, 2015, 07:15:33 PM »
Yes, right. GMII, El Duce!

Ive been going through the Rube Goldberg process list in my head and looking for evidence to support or deny the value of each process.

Hochkurz Step: I think ive proven for myself that a protein rest even with a lowish Kolbach rating isnt getting me anywhere. I dont think theres much evidence that the other two steps clearly provided extra maltiness or body. On my next version im mashing in at 142 but immediately recirculation heating to 150. After a long sac rest I will ramp to mash out. Why? I dont know. Single infusion just seems like cheating.

Mashing at 5.5 then acidifying to 5.0 pre-boil: I doubt it smoothed the bitterness. I didnt notice my yeast behaving any differently. If anything that procedure just commits you to a huge acid addition that you may descover later was not needed. I wont be doing that anymore.  If needed I can tweak final ph in the bottling bucket or keg.

Pitching at HK: Works, love it, already knew that though.

Marshall/McDole/Narziss Fermentation Schedule (alowing free rise after 50% ADF): Works, love it, already knew that. Ive actually been doing this with all of my beers now, ales and lagers.

60 min boil: Here's another confirmation that I'm surprised no one has been talking about. High percentage of pils malt and only boiling 60 minutes but so far 2 GM2s detected no DMS. And in styles where you certainly would be able to detect it if it was there.

There's one German technique that I didn't use but will be on the next version. FWH

1188
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: "Shaken, not Stirred" Summary
« on: December 29, 2015, 06:22:00 PM »
I feel for you Mark. I like RPIs idea though. Maybe one day when you blog it, you could link it to a fresh thread that could be stickied.

1189
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« on: December 29, 2015, 06:18:48 PM »
Oops!

I just noticed that it looks like I got ahead of myself when transcribing the aroma section of the helles from my score sheet into the email.  I'll send Jim the corrected text.  Sorry for the confusion

Steve

Thanks Steve, I fixed it. I didn't say anything because I just figured detecting hop bitterness by aroma was a special skill you get when you become a Grand Master.

1190
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« on: December 29, 2015, 06:10:46 PM »
One takeaway is that Randy may have more sensitivity to lactic sour flavor than Steve, or did I get that backwards?
Either way, it is good to know that some tasters may be able to find a flaw that others may not.
Yup! Hence the high value of having someone with those skills test your beer before you sink your teeth into certain assumptions.  That lactic is a prime example. Looking back, I dont think the preboil is necessary especially if it means flavor detection. Dropping that and switching to phosphoric for the mash pH ought to fix that.

Easy fix, but not if you dont know its a problem.

1191
All Grain Brewing / Re: Whirlpool/ 0 Minute Addition Difference
« on: December 29, 2015, 03:58:51 PM »
I suppose to be fair I ought to fine them both, then dry hop one. Otherwise folks will claim cheating due to one being over hazy. It should only be dry hop haze present.

I still suspect that average drinkers will chose the brilliant one.

1192
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: I haven't had a dumper in awhile...
« on: December 29, 2015, 03:42:49 PM »
I haven't dumped a wild beer yet. They always get better, so far. I imagine it's just a matter of time before a nail polish remover... no fixing that. But so far so good.

I've dumped countless partial kegs that were version x on its way to "perfection".

I personally don't understand choking down bad beer. But I also don't eat burned biscuits, or stay married to lunatics... the list goes on.

1193
All Grain Brewing / Re: Whirlpool/ 0 Minute Addition Difference
« on: December 29, 2015, 03:36:03 PM »
For what it's worth I also wonder if hop additions at low temperatures such as 65F (i.e. dry hopping) is too low to pull some of the oils from the hops we are after. I certainly get the aroma from dry hopping so I assume we get some of the oils. Last...I haven't done much research in this arena despite years of brewing so I'm asking a question blindly only because this community has extensive knowledge and will probably give a highly educated answer faster and more in depth than the research I would stumble thru.


Well, the oils obviously have a much longer extraction time when dry hopping (as in days, not minutes). But I see whirlpool hopping and dry hopping as having different character and not as interchangeable techniques. FWIW I use whirlpool hopping alone on most beers and use it along with dry hopping for hop forward American styles.
Fully agree that dry hopping vs low temp whirlpool are not equally interchangeable. Never will be. But I'm working on a hunch that for people who don't want to sacrifice clarity, you can get different but enjoyable and acceptable aroma from a low temp whirlpool. It will never be just like dry hopping, but...


Yeah, I hear ya. When I fine before crashing, I'm finding the dry hop character lasts longer and the beer still ends up being fairly clear, unless it's a big dry hop charge for IPAs of course.
I added some stuff... edited while you were typing

1194
All Grain Brewing / Re: Whirlpool/ 0 Minute Addition Difference
« on: December 29, 2015, 03:24:06 PM »
For what it's worth I also wonder if hop additions at low temperatures such as 65F (i.e. dry hopping) is too low to pull some of the oils from the hops we are after. I certainly get the aroma from dry hopping so I assume we get some of the oils. Last...I haven't done much research in this arena despite years of brewing so I'm asking a question blindly only because this community has extensive knowledge and will probably give a highly educated answer faster and more in depth than the research I would stumble thru.


Well, the oils obviously have a much longer extraction time when dry hopping (as in days, not minutes). But I see whirlpool hopping and dry hopping as having different character and not as interchangeable techniques. FWIW I use whirlpool hopping alone on most beers and use it along with dry hopping for hop forward American styles.
Fully agree that dry hopping vs low temp whirlpool are not equally interchangeable. Never will be. But I'm working on a hunch that for people who don't want to sacrifice clarity, you can get different but enjoyable and acceptable aroma from a low temp whirlpool. It will never be just like dry hopping, but...

Once I get a couple more brew projects done, I'm going to brew two side by side APAs. One will get 2oz dry hop for 4 days after TG, the other will get those 2oz in whirlpool at 120 for 15 min. The dry hopped beer gets no gelatin fining, the other does.

The blind triangle questions will be Is one of the three different? If yes, is the different beer more drinkable? Why/Why not?

1195
Lacto is so powdery and resists flocking that its really not worth it. Just leave it be is what I would do. You dont want oxygen getting in there. If no oxygen and under 4ph, not much will thrive in there. The receiving beer will take care of it.

1196
All Grain Brewing / Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« on: December 29, 2015, 02:39:49 PM »

If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29

part of what others were talking about with water source and composition is that unless he collected all the water, took a sample of THAT water for analysis there is no guarantee that the test and the actual water on brew day match up. If your friend get's his water from a surface source, or shallow subsurface source, a lot of rain or melt water would change the composition significantly, if, for instance, he took a sample mid summer and there hadn't been rain for 5 months and then it rained for a week right before he could have brewed with near distilled water rather than 88 ppm calcium.

You could save a sample somewhere warm for a couple weeks and see if any funk develops that would rule out wild yeast or other contaminant pretty well.

^^^^^ this all the way

I'm betting on calcium deficiency or contamination


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So (for the sake of argument) if the water report is accurate; 88 ppm calcium is deficient?
I say no, thats plenty

1197
Beer Recipes / Re: Low ABV Brew
« on: December 29, 2015, 02:30:07 PM »
I'm sure that's a great beer, but my goal is to make an American mild without British ingredients.  That's the challenge part....

FWIW I've mashed as high as 163 without making an appreciable difference in body or flavor.
If haze doesn't matter maybe try some unflavored fiber?

1198
Beer Recipes / Re: Low ABV Brew
« on: December 29, 2015, 02:27:23 PM »
I'm brewing a dry stout that came out of the kettle at 1.040. Is that low enough? I haven't tasted the finished product yet but in my imagination it doesn't suck.

1199
I pitched a package of Omega Lactobacillus blend  http://www.omegayeast.com/portfolio/lactobacillus-blend/  in a quart of 1.032 starter wort. After 3 days at room temperature the pH is down to 3.48 (don't know the unfermented pH of the starter). The gravity is at 1.028 so about 12% attenuation. I can't make the full batch for a week or two. Should I put this in the fridge? It smells really wort-y and I am afraid of it spoiling.
It's a starter right? Keep it undisturbed and room temp till pitch day then let er rip.

1200
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« on: December 29, 2015, 01:53:55 PM »
Sounds like the exportbier was a hit!
Its my favorite thats no doubt. The Munich Helles has really just turned into a personal challenge more than anything else. I'm giving it one more go around, but I may never brew it again after that. The Helles Ex? I dig that style. Not as dull as the Munich, not as bitter as a Pils. Just right for my tastes. Once I get it to a 42+ im going to lock it in and that will be my go-to pale lager.

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