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Messages - klickitat jim

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271
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 22, 2018, 02:04:51 AM »
"From the start we have NEVER said anyone makes bad beer, we have only offered options TO MAKE IT BETTER.  Yet that continues to be brought up.  It needs to be let go"

I don't know who all "we" includes, but in this thread it was said that "maybe many have just normalized many of the “Stage B” oxidation flavors in thier beers and it would take a tectonic shift in thier brewing to change their opinions."

Another comment was that our beer is oxidized already (I assume meaning that is because we don't do all of the other low oxy stuff) so, that's why we don't believe this or that... paraphrasing because none of this is that important to me, other than a fading hope that we might save this forum.

I reiterate what I've said before. Neither side is willing to step back. It's all about blame, and gotchas.

This used to be a really cool forum. It had a pub atmosphere. New people with really basic questions would get a ton of great help almost immediately. There was all different types of stuff being shared. But that was then. Now this low oxygen war has sucked the life out of it. And I don't care who started it, or who's right or wrong. It's sad. I'm probably going to just walk away.

272
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 22, 2018, 01:50:24 AM »
Fun fact, this thread made me check. I get my CO2 from Oxarc and according to the data on their website, their beverage CO2 is 99.999% pure.
I had to look up Oxarc. A PNW company.
Yes, which is convenient for me.

273
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 22, 2018, 01:36:16 AM »
Fun fact, this thread made me check. I get my CO2 from Oxarc and according to the data on their website, their beverage CO2 is 99.999% pure.


274
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 22, 2018, 01:03:35 AM »
This is exactly right.

Here is my problem. Everything we post is based on science AND sensory analysis.
But, we (and only we, which I don’t understand) HAVE to post the science behind why we say something for validation for people meanwhile everyone else gets to say “to me it matters”.  When we say that, the response is “we need to see the science to back this up”.  When we post the science they say “science doesn’t matter”.

Repeat endlessly. I don’t get it. 

Try it, don’t try it. It’s beer, who cares.  We have literal thousands of people trying and loving our methods.  So it’s certainly not the snake oil folks make it out to be. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I for one am quite sick of the "us against them" mental illness that is everywhere these days. It creates a blockade to ever learning anything. But especially in a hobby for crying out loud.

Perhaps "you guys" were over pummeled with demands for scientific proof, and maybe that helped foster the defensive stance you've taken.

I'll admit that I am unwilling to jump in your boat. But I also admit you are probably right on a lot of things. Having said that, as far as this forum goes, from my view point only... It's obvious both sides of this fight are not going to back down. Anger may be guiding a lot of what is said. I kind of see it from both sides. You guys are strongest when you stick to the science. The other side is strongest when they stick to their personal experience. Where it gets off track is comments like suggesting non low oxy people just don't know that their beer sucks... well, then they get riled because,,,  well, its an ignorant thing to say.

I'm hoping the stupid fighting goes away. Soon... It's a hobby.

275
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 21, 2018, 06:49:38 PM »
I think all of it is awesome! Love this hobby! I'm actually grateful for all of the info, and grateful I get to choose what's important to me. What we all should guard against is cubby-holing each other based on assumptions, when we never tried each other's beer.

I take some, reasonable "for me", steps to limit oxidation. I enjoy my beer, and folks who try it do also. And I enjoy making it. I'm still curious about improving it. Curious about all aspects, but that curiosity may not always get applied by me depending on what I personally choose to do or not do.

Example, spunding. I have no doubt it's the best way. But it's more than I want to mess with for what I feel could only be a minor improvement in "my beer". Not saying my beer is the best. Not saying your beer sucks and the only thing saving it is spunding.

The info is great, unfortunately it narrowed down to "Its science, so there!" and "I don't care about science" (paraphrasing to make my point) which is pointless, because it's clear this fight won't end until the forum is dead.

276
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 21, 2018, 05:38:14 PM »
I don't drink science, I drink beer.  If I like the taste of the beer, that's all the science I need.
Effective immediately
Aroma 1pt
Appearance 1pt
Flavor 1pt
Mouthfeel 1pt
Overall 1pt
Science 45pts
Total possible, 50pts

277
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 21, 2018, 05:09:56 PM »
I've been told that commercial breweries, and some home brewers, dry hop by placing the hops in a tank, purging the tank with CO2, and then transferring the beer onto the hops. How do they purge that tank? Wouldn't the sanitizer kind of ruin the hops?

278
It's not new. Boston Lager is easily confused as a Pale Ale. Pour one blind for your BJCP buddies and ask them to declare what style it is.

279
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 21, 2018, 03:26:39 PM »
But what about serving?

280
Kegging and Bottling / Re: CO2 Purity and Why It's So Important
« on: January 21, 2018, 03:19:54 PM »
It's great to have a DO meter so that you can test the purity of your Co2. Unfortunately a decent one costs about $8K.... I would gladly test anyone's Co2 for them for a small fee.

While it is no doubt good to be AWARE of this issue, as I see it, there's simply nothing I can do about it; I have to take my CO2 as I find it.

 Am I a total outlier here in thinking that this is a bit of a non issue because, as a homebrewer, I have the luxury of drinking my beer quite fresh (kegs are nearly always gone in 2 weeks), so I can relax about what is _primarily_ a shelf life concern (as long as I'm not doing full on LO?)
I find it interesting, in that it's brewing related so therefore interesting by default. I have no doubt that it's a major issue for someone. For me it's trivial and unfixable, so in effect I would almost be better off not even knowing about it. Interesting, but...

281
All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash
« on: January 21, 2018, 01:52:19 AM »
I had so much fun playing with this that I'm already planning on another Double Mash brew day in a few weeks.

I'm going to re-do this Stout, pretty much the same but changing the grain bill a bit.
20lbs Golden Promise
6lbs Dark Munich
2lbs Roast Barley
2lbs 425 Chocolate
And this time I'll split everything 50/50

The second brew is going to be I suppose a Barleywine, Big IPA, whatever
1.120 target OG
20lbs Golden Promise
10lbs Dark Munich
About 17srm
Double Mash split 50/50
55Ca 5Mg 25Na 55Cl 170 SO4 65HCO3

50g Chinook FWH
50g each of
Chinook
Cascade
Centennial at Wirlpool 170 for 20
I'll use 1450 again, see how it goes

282
All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash
« on: January 20, 2018, 01:02:14 AM »
You totally don't have to do it my way, I'm just saying that your plan differs from what I did enough that I don't know how to predict what will happen. I say go for it and see what happens.
I came up with this based on:

 1) the general idea being to split the grain bill in two and mash 2nd half in the 1st half's wort

 2) how to accomplish that with my equipment (I normally mash in my kettle, transfer to LT and sparge back to kettle, I just figured the LT is a good place for the first mash, since I dont want to mash off that one anyway)

I think the general plan (point 1) is probably as close to your brew last night as our different rigs will allow.

Anyway I was thinking, if the first wort pH is 5.4ish, and Bru'n Water says in plain RO the Munich would give a pH around 5.6, the 2nd mash should be in the ballpark, and when I sparge all the flavor salts will get in there.  If anybody thinks I'm way off, let me know.

Oh yeah I'll probably need a bit more sparge liquor, but details. Got half a year to figure it out.
The only potential problem I see is the 2nd mashing, lots of grain in only 3.? Gallons of wort. It will be interesting see what happens.

283
All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash
« on: January 20, 2018, 12:35:52 AM »
Regarding my double mash big stout... I oxygenated and pitched last night at 6pm. Second dose of O2 at 10pm. 3rd dose at 6am. Final dose at noon. It's gurgling away at near blow off pace already. And the pitch was one pack of 4 month old 1450 in a 1200ml active starter that I made that morning. Fantastic stuff!

284
All Grain Brewing / Re: Double Mash
« on: January 20, 2018, 12:08:09 AM »
You totally don't have to do it my way, I'm just saying that your plan differs from what I did enough that I don't know how to predict what will happen. I say go for it and see what happens.

285
Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Newbie question about SG
« on: January 19, 2018, 10:07:43 PM »
What do you mean by gravity readings are off? Will help get you the right answer

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