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Messages - udubdawg

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kinda silly, and telling, when no foreign beers make your top 50.  Again.

if we're going to do this, I will reiterate what I've said in previous years:  Call it what it is - Homebrewers' Favorite Beers.  Not "here's the best beers in America" ...because it is not that.

I've never made undrinkably bad beer, but have had a few fizzy bug infections and a couple batches of apple cider vinegar.  Although after Gary Awdey's talk I'm scared to death discovering mousiness in my cider.   ;D

worst mistake was probably at the end of an incredibly long double brew day, pitching the belgian yeast onto the dunkelweizen and the weizen yeast onto the patersbier.  beers turned out OK good, but all that work to end up with something different than I aimed at was pretty deflating at the time.

Beer Recipes / Re: Devil's Backbone Vienna Lager
« on: June 19, 2014, 09:21:24 AM »
during the talk the beer seemedfairly caramelly to me, though still delicious.  I could have sworn I saw something like "12% Cara-amber" up there on the screen.

man, am I good or what...
38% Pilsner Malt
38% Vienna Malt
12% Dark Munich Malt
12% Weyermann Cara-Amber Malt

Homebrew Competitions / Re: NHC Homebrew Competition Presentation
« on: June 19, 2014, 08:42:36 AM »
I have suggested 3 flights on a Saturday to a couple organizers, but am always told "that's too much work" by said organizer.  If done properly, I really don't think it is, and the judges are simply better when they are not enduring the 12+ beer flights.

anyway, Brian/Bruce do a nice job and I'd be happy to judge one of their competitions again anytime.

Events / Re: 2014 NHC Grand Rapids Review
« on: June 18, 2014, 03:15:18 PM »
we knew the menu days in advance last year, but certainly way past registration time.  I really enjoyed this year's menu but feel the pain of those on other diets.  I hope more accommodations for these people can be made.

is there any etiquette on not attending the banquet, but walking in at the start of the awards ceremony and waiting to see if your name is called for a medal?  There seems to be plenty of empty seats at that point...

Beer Recipes / Re: Devil's Backbone Vienna Lager
« on: June 18, 2014, 01:22:20 PM »
during the talk the beer seemedfairly caramelly to me, though still delicious.  I could have sworn I saw something like "12% Cara-amber" up there on the screen.

However after the banquet I had several samples where it seemed notably cleaner, more of a nice bready malt than sweet, toasty with much less caramel.

I shall have to do more "research"...

Events / Re: 2014 NHC Grand Rapids Review
« on: June 18, 2014, 08:32:54 AM »
Anyone else get a really sore throat after the conference followed by sickness?  Seems several people I know did... Someone was the Outbreak monkey this weekend.
Yup...soar throat, then sinus congestion/infection.  Yesterday was the worse but ears are still plugged up.

Hey...I think I shook your hand at club night...thanks a lot dkfick  ;)

post NHC 2013 and 2012 are by far the sickest I've been in a couple decades.  I was pretty wary about glass sharing this time, and have thus far avoided illness...

anyone remember that suspect glass rinser in the social club in Philly? 

Other Fermentables / Re: Thinking about trying my had at mead
« on: June 18, 2014, 07:43:56 AM »
degas, THEN add more nutrients.

or, set your video camera up and post the vid for us if you do it in the reverse order.   ;D

a refractometer and a good quality lees stirrer and pH meter will make life easier too, though are not absolutely vital.

Events / Re: 2014 NHC Grand Rapids Review
« on: June 17, 2014, 04:04:05 PM »
I've noticed several people asking about the lack of final round beers on Saturday evening. Most of my club didn't have tickets for the banquet, but we wandered back over specifically to try and hunt down my beer and two others from my club that made the final round. We asked one of the AHA staff and he was surprised they weren't out and left to go check on it. He came back and said it was because of Michigan laws and all the beers would likely be disposed of. I cringed at the thought of that many bottles going to waste, but if it really was laws, not much you can do. Shrug.

I cringe at the thought of the third bottle of Doug Karp's silver medal cream ale being poured out.  And 55 other medal winners.  Ugh.
curious what is against the law - us taking bottles, or us opening bottles?  How were we able to legally open the ones in the competition?  Hmm...

Events / Re: 2014 NHC Grand Rapids Review
« on: June 17, 2014, 08:05:43 AM »
in 1997 my club (formerly known as Derby Brew Club) won COTY with less than 20 members.  That was a different time, that is for sure...

This year we finished a very close second place for Gambrinus, which while not a perfect award, IMO does a better job of showing quality of a club's brewers.  After working for years to get club members to brew/enter NHC again, I'd have been way more proud of that than any individual awards.  Oh well - maybe next year.


arrived in Michigan on Monday.  Had some mousy cider.  Bought a bottle on reputation without trying it that now I find out is full of rodent too.  Clean it up Greg...

Tuesday I went to Siciliano's to beat the rush, spent a ton of time at Founders, and went to the Brewery Vivant beer dinner - nothing but great things to say about any of those places, as usual.  Wish I could have taken the cider exam but dinner was calling.

Wednesday mead exam, bacon and beer brunch, and BJCP reception.  Schramm's Black Agnes and Gary Awdey's cider presentation were highlights.  Conference registration was a breeze.

Thursday judging.  Sending the form ahead of time was a good idea.  Sending it Wednesday when I couldn't print it out (I'm like the last guy without a smart phone) was not.  Poor communication on the necessity of the line, and other things already mentioned and not worth rehashing.
Judged Light Lagers.  All solid to very good beers, with a few of the usual 1C/1D efforts masquerading as 1A/1B.  I was pleased there were 4 teams judging the Finals categories this year; too many Final Round entries for 3 teams.
Martin, we'd love it if you would speed it up...
Judged Trad meads in the afternoon.  Learning experience, but I did push the silver medal.  Great take on Sage Blossom.  Someone gave me a sample of the gold medal Perry; at that point I knew there was a spare bottle of my cider, so I retrieved it and gave it to Gary Awdey to rip apart at his leisure.  Ya can't miss an opportunity to get feedback from someone like that.

I agree that people were a bit ridiculous with the Opening Toast snacks piled high, but really, what did you think would happen?  A few thousand hungry overweight guys in one room with a bunch of decent beer?

As others stated, vertical signage is a must.  Too hard to find beers, and the layout made little sense.  Crowded too, but at least there were tables to rest at.  As bad as the sound was, I didn't come out of there with a noise-induced headache like after Pro Night in Philly, at least...
Overall, I didn't mind the change, but Pro Night was often my favorite event from a quality and I-haven't-had-it-before standpoint, and this was not the same.

Too tired for ballpark; went out to dinner w/o beer as I did most nights.  I was pleased with the restaurants in the area in terms of selection, quality, and price.

Really enjoyed the cider seminars on Friday.  I know San Diego isn't the cider center that Michigan is, but I still hope we get a decent number of these next year too.  The cider tap takeover was great although I know several people who missed it as they were told it started at 3.  Not sure who was giving out the misinformation.

Helped KCBM pour on Friday, though I only poured like 4 beers and mostly just hung out and served a few bottles of my stuff.  I'd like to think I didn't get in the way that much.  Thanks for the shirt AmandaK!  Charlie stopped by the booth; Amanda does Crane know Prez Papazian has had his beet beer?  Can't believe I missed the opportunity to pour something of my own for him! 
Let's get the ice to the clubs sooner though, eh?  Next time the conference center will know that we need a lot...

The Saturday morning sour beer, new hops, and understanding honey seminars were really really fantastic.  Appreciated the mead tap takeover in the social club; I want to see more of this kind of thing. 

Missed the BJCP guidelines presentation to get more sour mead; looking forward to seeing the changes.

Wow, long line for the banquet.  I'd like to thank High Gravity for letting a few of us Wichita people sit at their sponsor table again or we'd have been in the back row.

tschmidlin sat with us too and used profanity to describe the cider I poured for a good way.  8)

was prepared to be underwhelmed by the food, but it was great.  really great.  Thanks to forum member braufessor who gave me the bottle of Raspberry Berliner weisse that I shared with the table.  Great stuff!

Sound was bad, but I was close enough to read the names at least.  And also, no matter how you feel about TBN winning COTY, I have to thank them for letting my family have a chance to see me walk across the stage.

as others have asked, where were the leftover competition bottles?  rooting through them is one of my favorite things!

met some of the wedding party in the Amway on Sat. night.  guys who were REALLY tired of champagne and wish they'd skipped out.  I hope at least one of us drunks got into the background of the wedding photos, hehehe...

Overall I met a ton of you guys.  Only a couple I regret.  ;)

I'll save specifics about the competition for another thread later this summer.

see you in cloudy San Diego!

Homebrew Competitions / Re: Ninkasi
« on: June 16, 2014, 05:17:42 PM »
You and Larry Reuter would have won if you had put the silver in you name. Donna was listed first on the IPA silver.

I always am listed first for our beers, as that is the reality - numbers, process, heavy lifting are my domain.

that's a misunderstanding people have come to a lot.
I got a gold, for one of my 4 entries.
Cole got a Silver, with me as the co-brewer, for his only entry.
(another guy got 1 of 2 in the finals, but no medals, with me as a co-brewer).
2 medals out of 7 entries with me somewhere on there.  Not 2 under my AHA number.

so Cole+Michael and Michael are separate teams and separate point totals, as it should be.

as for the Reuters, if they are a husband/wife duo who each entered 2, with the other as their cobrewer, then they deserve Ninkasi.  If they used the fact that they've got two AHA numbers to get 5-8 entries, up to 4 each with the spouse as each others' co-brewer, then they're in the same basic situation as Cole and I, and it's two different teams.

Homebrew Competitions / Ninkasi
« on: June 16, 2014, 12:30:12 PM »
**let me put this first:  No sour grapes.  The right guy won.  But let's imagine for a minute that he did not win that Bronze medal.  Imagine instead we had 23 brewers each with one Gold Medal.  OK?

here are the "official rules"
here are the Ninkasi tiebreakers at the link:
There will only be one Ninkasi Award winner. In the event of a tie for the most points in the Final Round, the following tie-breaker criteria will apply.
a. The number of medals earned in the Final Round will be tallied, and the brewer with the most medals will be declared the winner. If a tie still exists,
b. The number of Gold medals earned in the Final Round will be tallied, and the brewer with the most Gold medals will be declared the winner. In case a tie still exists,
c. The number of entries qualifying for the Final Round will be tallied for each tying brewer, and the brewer with the fewest entries in the Final Round will be declared the winner. In case a tie still exists,
d. Points will be calculated for tying brewers’ entries that placed in the First Round of the NHC based on the same scale as used in the Final Round. The brewer with the most points in the First Round will be declared the winner. If a tie still exists,
e. The number of entries qualifying for the Final Round will be tallied for each tying brewer, and the brewer with the most entries placing in the First Round will be declared the winner. In case a tie still exists,
f. The total number of entries registered for the First Round of the competition will be tallied for each tying brewer, and the brewer with the fewest registered entries will be declared the winner. If a tie still exists,
g. The winner will be selected using a random selection method. A random method such as rock-paper-scissors, steel cage death match, or a coin flip will be applied at the discretion of the competition organizers to determine the winner.

*sigh* - despite being told multiple times, "c" and "e" are still the opposite of each other.  "e" needs to be deleted.
Furthermore, I think "c" makes little sense in a competition with severe entry limits.  The 23 gold medalists this year advanced 1, 2, or 3 to the Finals.  "a" and "b" are pretty outdated too.

Here are the rankings of the top 23, using tiebreakers a thru d.  Assuming the redundant "e" is deleted, if Voeltz had not won that second medal, we'd have a 6-way tie for first place, and would need to figure out who had the "fewest 1st round entries".  Considering everyone had 1,2,3 or 4, another tie is possible.  The idea that we'll never get to the coin flip is simply false in these days of entry limits.

place   Brewer   Final Points   Final Medals   Gold Medals   # advancing   1st rd points
1   Voeltz   8   2   1   3   10
2   Boeke   6   1   1   1   6
2   Fish   6   1   1   1   6
2   Gladue   6   1   1   1   6
2   Hilferding   6   1   1   1   6
2   Sapp   6   1   1   1   6
2   Shibiya   6   1   1   1   6
8   Barry   6   1   1   1   4
9   Collins   6   1   1   1   2
9   Rawks   6   1   1   1   2
11   Reinholdt   6   1   1   2   12
12   Carter   6   1   1   2   10
12   Hixson   6   1   1   2   10
12   Linder   6   1   1   2   10
12   Reuter   6   1   1   2   10
16   Gutierrez   6   1   1   2   8
16   Kampshoff   6   1   1   2   8
16   Marvin   6   1   1   2   8
16   Rodammer   6   1   1   2   8
20   Schmitt   6   1   1   2   6
20   Vrabel   6   1   1   2   6
22   Wilcox   6   1   1   3   16
23   McNair   6   1   1   3   14

(I'll format it later.  basically we've got 6 guys with one gold medal, blue ribbon beer, that was the only thing they advanced to the Finals, and one tiebreaker left before the coin flip)

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 2014 NHC broadcast???
« on: June 16, 2014, 10:15:43 AM »
Put me down in the column for 23-way tie among beer gold medalists = not a meaningful award.  We were THAT close...

Its not that though - remember Jeremy's medal in mead counts as do all of his first place placings. So he started with a big lead if he managed to get 3 entries into the second round.

you lost me, Drew.
Jeremy has 8 Final Round points.
22 other beer medalists have 6.

One bronze medal separated us from going to the tiebreakers.  And not a tiebreaker among 2 or 3 brewers, but every single beer gold medal.   If that's not close I don't know what is.

 I went through the First Round results.  Didn't see anyone's name 4 times.  Saw like 30+ with 3.  None with 3 First Round Blue Ribbons (except some without any beer ribbons).  I had 16 First Round points, and a few others did too.  If it comes to that, I repeat:  I do not find it to be a meaningful award.

Big lead?  I don't see it.


Events / Re: 2014 NHC Grand Rapids Review
« on: June 16, 2014, 08:13:28 AM »
a wasted member of our table showed up late.  I grabbed/ate his salad as they were going to clear the plate.  The thought of them throwing that goat cheese away was not something I was willing to chance. 

(they did bring him another salad when his drunk ass eventually stumbled in.) 

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 2014 NHC broadcast???
« on: June 16, 2014, 07:45:54 AM »
Actually, there were 3 people with 2 medals in the final round:

Jeremey Voeltz (Gold in SHV and Bronze in Other Mead) - Ninkasi winner

Karl King (Bronze in Bock and Bronze in Strong Ale)

Jeff Carlson (Gold in Specialty Cider and Bronze in Standard Cider): Note that Jeff would not be eligible for Ninkasi per the rules because he did not medal in a beer category.

So, it really came down to one having a Gold/bronze versus a bronze/bronze. But, congrats to these three for medaling twice. It's so difficult to do that with the 4 entry limit.


basically correct, though obviously King was not second in case anyone interprets your post that way.  It's still about points before number of medals, so it came down to Voeltz and then a 22-way tie among other Beer Gold medalists.

Put me down in the column for 23-way tie among beer gold medalists = not a meaningful award.  We were THAT close... 

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