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Messages - BrodyR

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1
Beer Recipes / Re: Jever Clone
« on: July 11, 2016, 11:49:56 AM »
Does anyone have a Jever clone, tried and tested?
I´ve searched the whole forum and got some clues from some of the users, but not the whole recipe.
I know the grain bill and hops are quite simple, but not the process itself.

Thank you in advance.

If you're looking to get into the gritty process details with German Lager Brewing processes check out http://forum.germanbrewing.net/




2
One thing I wonder about is if the German breweries that produce the beers that are held up as examples are following any of these procedures.  After talking to a few German brewers, I have yet to find one that does it this way or knows any other brewer who does.  That of course doesn't mean that there aren't, but can anyone cite any examples?

Unless I'm mistaken no one is claiming German brew houses use the SMB process. O2 consciousness in general just seems to be a basic part of German brewing that is outlined in the brewing texts (ex: Kunze section 3.2) the same way as we would outline the importance of say pH. Same concept of how no professional breweries mash in coolers, but many of us do since it accomplishes the same goal.

The outlined method is simply a means for smaller brewers to accomplish the same goal of a low-DO brew house without being able to mash in a purged and sealed environment. The dissolved oxygen readings show it accomplishes that and the Sulfite test strips indicate the levels in the final beer are on par with commercial readings. So the proof of wether or not the method reduces dissolved oxygen is fairly clear.

Taste, however, is subjective of course but at that point the discussion is wether or not low-02 brews taste better. And if so the discussion becomes, is their a more efficient way to avoid oxidation?


3
All Grain Brewing / Re: Is 5.0 Ph too low?
« on: May 09, 2016, 08:20:59 AM »
I'd add a bit now anyway. If you have Brun Water can try to estimate the amount. If not I would start small, take a reading, and adjust if needed.

4
I don't think anyone's claiming the Germans dose their strike water with SMS, but some seem to mash in sealed brewing systems purged with inert gas. The SMS is a bit of a hack to allow home brewers to brew in a low-02 environment without a professional german brewery.

Again, I get how a lot of people were rubbed the wrong way initially, but if you believe the goal of O2 exclusion is worthwhile I'd consider giving it a shot. To me reading Kunze, talking with the German Brewing team, and listening to John Klimmich (Shaun Hill appears to be O2 conscious as well - he's using german equipment and they purge growlers at the brewpub) was enough for me to decide it was worth trying.

As to the method, their Dissolved Oxygen meters indicate the SMS/Spunding method is doing the trick. The biggest thing I noticed was how much Carahell actually tastes like honey.

5
The whole confirmation bias thing goes both ways tho. If the community at large goes into this with a strong conclusion bias, runs some experiments where critical points are skipped or messed up and then declares it worthless we've learned nothing.

I feel like this is an extreme example of how we operate now -

Person A says a step mash has worked for them.
Person B tests a step mash and uses steps and times no reasonable man would employ, then declares it void.
Person A&B tell each other they're idiots - a back and forth ensues. Nothing is tested further.

We should operate like -
Person A says a step mash has worked for them.
Person B tests a step mash and uses steps and times no reasonable man would employ, then declares it void.
Person A tells them a simple 60/60 hockhurz makes more sense. And it's more of a subtlety anyway aimed at targeting a certain attenuation while still encouraging body and head. Perhaps you should test a standard 40-60m single infusion with a Hockhurz and measure any attenuation, efficiency, and body/foam differences. People can then decide if this works for them.

The German Forum is changing the tone now. They've shared info painstakingly obtained over the years. So the community at large now has a choice to either properly put it to the test, ignore it (I know trying to nail an accurate low O2, cold fermented Bavarian Helles is really not everyones thing), or discredit it all as worthless.

Like I said, subjectively my brewing has improved quite a lot corresponding with these guys. I'm planning on using a DO meter to really put my methods to the test and ultimately do a side by side.

6
It doesn't exist.  Or, at least, not in a bad way  ;)

Have you seen what a grant or a traditional decoction look like?

This.  Plus have these guys ever listened to somebody like Charlie Bamforth, a real scientist?

The amount of scientific knowledge these guys have acquired should be recognized. Besides having read the technical texts (Narziss, Kunze, etc... some even in German) they've brewed hundreds of batches of lager as a team. And they're probably the only group who measures scientific stats and monitors Dissolved Oxygen, Sulfite content, fermentation, etc as robustly.

My first lager I brewed with fairly American methods (quick fermentation schedule, fined with gelatin, force carbonated, didn't pay any mind to hot side oxygenation, etc) with only a couple of twists like using a Hockhurz and employing some stuff from Kai. It was good! Crystal clear, awesome head, crisp. But it was really clean... as many American lagers are. Could have passed for a blond ale even.

After implementing the techniques they've been encouraging I'm brewing totally different beer. I'm a novice to their craft but the Helles in my lagering keg right now tastes a hell of a lot more like a German Helles than my previous batches or most you'd get from a US craft brewer. Touch of sulfur, lingering fresh grain taste, well balanced, awesome malt flavor.

I know Bryan came off like a dick on here with the infamous helles thread regarding Marshall which, understandably, rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. But wasn't a lot of the criticism centered around the forum suggesting that instead of arguing with people or trolling that he should share their results and add to the community knowledge? They're doing that now so if anyone's goal is to brew lager that tastes like an actual German lager I'd recommend you read the paper with an open mind.

7
Beer Recipes / Re: "Juicy" IPA
« on: April 17, 2016, 07:59:40 PM »
This actually very close to a pale ale I've been tweaking. I've been top cropping 1469 (think I'm about to be on pitch 5, may try London Ale III soon tho) and even busted out a hockhurz as well (tho I doubt it's usual for the style.. just been on a lager kick and thought what the hell).

Sounds like you got all the main keys of this style - use a s*** ton of dry hops, use a flavorful yeast, 15%+ flaked grains, less sulfate + more chloride than is usual for a pale ale. Personally I'd move some of the whirlpool to dry but that's personal preference.

It seems like filtering, gelatining, or extended cold crashing is avoided with this style. And age or oxygen can quickly kill the dry hops affect.

8
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Loss of hop aroma.
« on: April 15, 2016, 10:18:06 AM »
About a month ago I brewed a SMaSH AG beer. Used 10 lbs marris otter, .5 oz mosaic @60 and .5 @15 with
1 oz dry hopped in keg. After carbonation the first few pints were awesome, then not long after I started to lose aroma, is there anything I can do to get the aroma to last the entire keg?

Be careful about oxygen and add more hops

9
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: My latest peeve....
« on: April 03, 2016, 08:41:42 PM »
Have a modern East Coast/New England/North East/Vermont style (whatever you want to call it) IPA and you should realize it's a pretty accurate description. In my opinion it's a hell of a lot more accurate than spicy for Saaz.

A typical 'juicy' beer will have massive dry hops leading to a very fruity flavor but not a lot of bitterness.

In addition, they tend to have a water profile heavier in Chloride and lighter in Sulfite than is typical for an IPA, english yeast character, and probably some oats or wheat. Which all contribute to a very different body and mouthfeel.

If a beer is hazy, slightly acidic, and bursting with citrusy tropical fruit aromas it's tough to think of a better descriptor than juicy.

10
Beer Recipes / Re: APA
« on: March 11, 2016, 09:27:25 AM »
I would probably measure out some slurry using a yeast pitch calculator. Overpitching is supposed to lead to thin tasting beer. I've noticed that when tasting FFT samples.

Recently I started using Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire - T. Taylor) and open fermenting/top cropping it and it's been awesome. I'm only a few batches in with it so far but I'm getting a ton of clean healthy yeast off the crop, storing it under beer in a sanitized mason jar, and plan on continuing to use it for all my ale fermentations. Seems to be the best way to keep an ale strain going.

That's a great yeast for sure. I have done the same top cropping of 1469 with success. One thing that I and another brewer from another forum noticed is that it seems to stop forming that great croppable mat of yeast in successive generations. I have seen it twice now. The resulting beers were as good if not better than others and they attenuated as expected so I am not convinced it is a problem for anything other than continued top cropping. Just a point of interest and I would be curious to see if anyone else noticed it. Carry on.

Interesting, I'll post about it if I notice that as well. Wonder if open fermenting will affect it.

11
Beer Recipes / Re: APA
« on: March 11, 2016, 07:13:33 AM »
I would probably measure out some slurry using a yeast pitch calculator. Overpitching is supposed to lead to thin tasting beer. I've noticed that when tasting FFT samples.

Recently I started using Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire - T. Taylor) and open fermenting/top cropping it and it's been awesome. I'm only a few batches in with it so far but I'm getting a ton of clean healthy yeast off the crop, storing it under beer in a sanitized mason jar, and plan on continuing to use it for all my ale fermentations. Seems to be the best way to keep an ale strain going.

The Belgium's do the whole using a lot of sugar while still leaving nice mouthfeel thing well. The step mashes they employ may be part of the equation.

12
General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Mark, S. Cerevisiae
« on: March 09, 2016, 08:19:02 PM »
Does he still have that blog on yeast?

13
Ingredients / Re: Flaked Oats
« on: March 09, 2016, 03:50:43 PM »
Out of interest, what type of beer are you making?

Well I swore off making any more pale ales, but this is too interesting...

http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/08/tired-hands-hophands-clone-revisted.html?showComment=1457527681040#c7993918678950912221

Good stuff, think you'll enjoy it.

14
I love low alcohol beers. Here's a few styles I've played around with:

1) Ordinary Bitter/Golden Ale: CAMRA cites OB as 3.4% to 3.9% abv but I've seen some as low as 3%. A basic recipe would be 90% British Pale Ale Base Malt (Marris Otter/Golden Promise), 6% Medium/Dark UK Crystal Malt, 4% Wheat Malt. Hopping is flexible, it seems the English differ from the Germans in incorporating some American style hopping (sometimes US varieties and heavy late/dry hopping). The combo of flavorful British Ale yeast (could even try open fermenting a top cropper), UK malts, and a decent hop character can make the beers pretty flavorful despite such a low gravity. It may seem unusual but I actually did a Hockhurz mash on my last Golden Ale - the long rest at 160f seems to help with body and foam. Single infusion I go on the higher end, like 154f. Golden Ales are all or mostly pale ale malt with more aggressive hopping. I have a 3.9% one on tap now that was Golden Promise, EKG, Wyeast 1469 (T. Taylor yeast). Think the yeast, hops, and low final pH leave it with a citrusy sort of flavor.

2) Berlinner Weisse: I only helped brew one once with a buddy so by no means an expert. But he kettle soured a berlinner that came in around 3% and it was solid.

3) Czech Lagers: BJCP style guidelines seem to be a off on ABV but this site gives a nice overview (http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/czecintr.htm). The Czechs brew 8-10 plato (3-4%) lagers in pale, amber, and dark varieties. This slideshow goes in depth (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2015/2015%20AHA%20Czech%20Lagers%20-%20History,%20Brewing,%20Judging.pdf).

4) Trappist Singles/Pattersbier: Something I want to look more into. Only one I tried was basically a pils with Trappist yeast. I have a lot to learn with these.

5) Irish Dry Stout, as you mentioned: I have one fermenting now - 70% Base Malt ( I split TF Golden Promise with Munton's Mild Ale Malt), 20% Flaked Barley, 10% Munton's Roasted Barley. Used the 1469 I've been open fermenting/top cropping, and bittered with a hop shot to 35ibus. Guinness finishes with a low pH (3.8 or 3.9 IIRC?) and has a bit of an acidic twang but a lot of folk like the pH higher on stouts and mash as around 5.5. I added the Roasted Barley late once (after mashing Pale Malts at 5.4) and my final pH was 3.85 with the acidity being a major flavor component.


15
Beer Recipes / Re: Looking for help with my first pale ale
« on: March 07, 2016, 12:06:11 PM »
I've messed around with a lot of pale ales

1) UK style: I have a Golden Ale on tap now (SMaSH beer: Thomas Fawcett's Golden Promise, EKG, & the Timothy Taylor Strain) that's pretty light at 1.040 OG/10 plato, 30ibus. I hopped at 60m, 10m, Hop Stand, & Dry for this one. Pretty citrusy and bready. Also a big fan of ordinary bitter in which I've used less late hops and 5-10% UK medium crystal malt. Water usually fairly high in Calcium Sulfate. Mashed at 5.4ph, finished beers ended up pretty low.

2) US Style: I tend to focus on the modern NorthEast style juicy pale ales. I've used 85% Pale Malt, 15% Flaked Oats, and 1/2 oz to an oz per gallon of hops in a long (60-90m) hop stand and an oz or 2 per gallon dry hopped. I've liked Conan and english yeast strains for this style more than S-05. Seems to stack up well with the Tired Hands/Vermont beers I enjoy.

Let us know what you're going for and we can get more specific.
Brody, do you attribute that "juicy" cloudy look to the oats addition? How's the mouthfeel? This style is pretty interesting to me.

The combination of Oats & massive dry hops definitely leave a cloudy look. The oats add that classic oats mouthfeel that I have a tough time describing (everyone says silky.. but I kind of look at that the same way that people say saaz is spicy.. not sure I really get the reference).

Beyond the oats I think the english yeast (Tired Hands and Hill Farmstead are rumored to use London Ale III the Boddington's strain but not confirmed. Alchemist obviously uses Conan.) helps keep the mouthfeel soft. Stuck a pH meter in a Hop Hands and was surprised how low it was (below 4 IIRC). I forgot about a growler of HF Edward in the back of my fridge once - the hop aroma had totally faded and the English yeast flavor was dominant.

So that low pH, massive fruity hop aroma/flavor, softness, haze, and relatively low bitterness lead to the juicy descriptor. A lot of people have trouble with tired hands growlers blowing on them if shipped so some theorize that they keg the beer without any cold crash, finings, filtration and there may be some yeast still at work while they error on the side of freshness.

This guy did some nice work figuring out the style - http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/08/tired-hands-hophands-clone-revisted.html

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